11: “Don’t Pray When It Rains If You Don’t Pray When the Sun Shines”


by Salty

WOODSTOCK, GA – Many of you know my affection for Charleston and my Tigers…and obviously baseball. My roots, however, started elsewhere…LA. For the ‘southern uninitiated’, we’re not talking ‘Tinsel-Town’, but the butt of the joke: it keeps Georgia from being neighbors with Mississippi. Yep, the ol’ ‘Heart of Dixie’. Granted, Alabama has some less than stellar history, but in baseball lore, show me a state that has delivered more with less.

A brief perspective: the City of Lost Angels has more folks than the entire state (a shade over 2 million), and Mobile wouldn’t rank as a decent size city by today’s standards.

“I Ain’t Ever Had A Job, I Always Played Baseball”

In my baseball card collection, the Alabama players were special. Which gives rise to this blog lead: who would make an all-time Alabama team? Also, is there a similarly populated area that could match the depth and quality of the team? The second part, that’s for debate by you fine denizens, but the team, I’ll lay my choices down for you. By the way, it wasn’t easy!

You folks remember George Foster? How about Amos Otis, Willie Wilson, Al Worthington? Tommy Agee, Cleon Jones…Bruce ‘Eggs’ Benedict? Perhaps ‘Vinegar Bend’ Mizell, Frank ‘Yankee Killer’ Lary, or youngsters Jake Peavy, Juan Pierre, and Matt Cain ring a bell? They didn’t make the cut. Heck, there are Hall of Famers (noted by *) who don’t even crack the starting lineup!

Numbers…it’s what makes baseball history so grand. My team: eleven Hall of Famers. Starting lineup: over 1800 home runs and 10000 RBI’s! The bench: almost another 1000 HRS and over 5500 RBI’s. Pitchers: exceed 1400 wins, 300 saves, 200 shutouts, 13000 strikeouts. And know this; a couple of players’ stats are light. Their years in the Negro Leagues aren’t included. Yikes!

Without further adieu, let the numbers do the talking!

Oh, and the quotes…you do know who’s talking, right?

“If a Man Can Beat You, Walk Him”


– Salty –

Blog address: bravesandstuff@hotmail.com

311 Responses to “11: “Don’t Pray When It Rains If You Don’t Pray When the Sun Shines””

  1. 1 CL January 4, 2008 at 8:58 am

    Way to go, Salty!! Ya done good!! 🙂


  2. 2 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 9:12 am

    Nicely done Salty…… I never realized Mississippi was the birthplace of so many fine ball players. One of my favorites was Satchel Paige. If he had pitched in the Majors during his prime, he would still hold records no one else could touch.


  3. 3 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 9:14 am

    Pretty formidable outfield too… 🙂


  4. 4 williamwallace January 4, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Great job salty. BUT…..

    Oscar Gamble wants to know if Salty can find a spot for his famous fro on the squad.

    Bo Knows Salty should have put him on the squad.

    Doyle Alexander wants to be considered for the squad because he is great trade bait.


  5. 5 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Oops… There I go, putting foot in mouth again. No wonder I didn’t think that many players came from Mississippi, It was because they were from Alabama. (Eyes are getting bad and it takes a while for the Kickapoo Joy Juice to ring in….. 😳


  6. 6 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Nice job, Salty! Reminds me of a story my brother-in-law tells of his days in the army. He went to helicopter flight school at Fort Rucker, which is near Dothan (southeast corner of AL). My wife and her family are all from California and my in-laws were living in Los Angeles at the time. First day of class, the instructor has everyone stand up and tell everyone else where they were from. One fellow got up, said his name, and then said “Ahm, frum Ell Auh”. Ed was pretty excited about having someone from a familiar area to pal around with. The other guy went on to say “Low-ah Ahl-a-bam-a”!


  7. 7 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Gil, does Kickapoo Joy Juice = Jameson Irish Whiskey?


  8. 8 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 10:20 am

    T’is a special blend which could be considered by some as a performance enhancer. Under advice from legal council, I am not free to discuss the contents of a secret family recipe which has been handed down by many generations of Irishmen. 🙂


  9. 9 journalist jimmy smith January 4, 2008 at 10:30 am

    oh, the humanity! salty has done us proud! this blog is getting better and better all the time. who whould have thunk alabama could produce such formidable baseball players? of course, jimmy smith has limited baseball knowledge but jimmy smith understands everything said here about baseball. and who are the all-time alabama pie makers? and gil, this journalist thanks gil for the kind words. as most know, jimmy smith was just a trouble maker talking birds on the small blog and jimmy smith is no longer a welcomed contributor there. wait? didn’t jimmy smith leave? on jimmy smith’s own? thought so. worm turning is not pretty. and carolina lady and the colossus: no, not chino cadahia but the bravesandstuff blog. soon, this blog will be mentioned on espn by joe morgan and joe morgan will have nice things to say about carolina lady and chop seal. what do they say in school? character counts. and it is nice to hear from sja. perhaps rr can be persuaded to blog with us soon. still a little tender from the unfortunate googling. maybe a little numbing jelly would do the trick. anyway, sja, please invite rr to stop by and this journalist will attempt to make amends. buffet style. and it was good to hear from hk – still pumping out those graphs. and julia was mentioned on the other blog. has anyone heard from julia? sja, right?


  10. 10 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Yep, the use of initials can be confusing some times. When I was teaching at a local community college, the going joke was whenever people would ask the students what school of higher education they were attending, many would reply USC. Folks would be quite impressed thinking either Southern Cal or South Carolina. They would be somewhat less impressed when told “University” of Southern Chester. 🙂


  11. 11 nacly January 4, 2008 at 10:54 am

    Gil…conspicuously unmentioned: how Kickapoo Joy Juice is administered. 😕


  12. 12 journalist jimmy smith January 4, 2008 at 11:01 am

    in football discussion, georgia tech may wish to schedule university of chester next season. and poor arthur blank wrote a letter to the fans. dropped a hammer on arthur blank’s toe, so to speak. and who will turn down the falcons next? and al gore should be pursued. oscar, nobel peace prize, and former vice-president. seems to win everything but the super bowl. and that brings up bobby cox . . . will bobby cox return this team to the playoffs? and how deeply will this team get in the playoffs with famous tom glavine in the rotation? already talking playoffs? oh, the humanity! better to find a center fielder first. and won’t any center fielder hit better than andruw last year? and who is the best athlete on the team? don’t count smoltz. who is the best athlete? answer and jimmy smith will explain why the question is raised.


  13. 13 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Great post Salty. Didn’t know you were a Yellowhammer boy. Also didn’t know all that HOF talent came from Alabama. Loved the graph. What a collection of baseball icons. Good digging you done.

    I’ll never forget watching Satchel Paige pitch. Well, he didn’t actually pitch the game I attended, but threw on the sidelines at old Fulton County Stadium back in the late 60’s…can’t remember exact year. He was also in his late 60’s I think. The way he was announced (heralded) before the game it almost seemed like he was going to start the game that night. Satchel was hired as a Braves pitching coach but that was more of an honorary position for the legend and a promotional assignment to attract Braves fans.

    I’ll never forget the relaxed, natural, lanky but controlled way he threw the ball. Thinking back, the closest modern player I could compare him to in terms of body type would be Dontrelle Willis. Dontrelle will never be mentioned in the same breath as Satchel, but they had similar physical movement. Only Satchel seemed more natural, less “tight” than even Willis. Not sure that comparison would have been made had I seen Satchel in his prime. Have to build that time machine.

    Anyway, he put on a real show for us kids even at his ripe old age for an athlete. Ted Williams did the world a favor when he suggested that the Negro League players be recognized in the HOF. Paige was one of the most storied players of all time. He’s right up there with Jackie Robinson, Christy Mathewson, Ted Williams, DiMaggio, Babe…any and all of ‘em.

    So, what makes Alabama boys so good at baseball? Salt in the water?


  14. 14 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Probably shouldn’t admit this midnight confession but we’re among friends. Anyway, it’s kinda funny…

    After a very long day yesterday, finally got home, got everything settled, built a fire, watched the Iowa returns and checked in on the blog. As usual, many entertaining folks there (here), so I was inspired to chime in. A little nonsensical repartee ensued then Klobber, being a gentleman and having a good wrist, showed up and poured me a 4-finger shot of that KC firewater (a double rooskie of my own making).

    Posted, read, posted, read…next thing I know, I’m sitting there snoozing. I had written a few lines for my next post but it was gibberish (not unlike many of my posts). The words made absolutely no sense. I suppose at the time I wrote it I knew what it meant…but when I awoke, only God knows what the heck I was talking about. Probably something about the American League.

    Glad I didn’t wake up long enough to, out of habit, hit the post button. Good thing, ‘cause today I’d have some real ‘splainin’ to do. I’d have to deny knowing that Klobber had given me KC in the clubhouse…when I thought it was just apple juice. Sound fishy? Apple juice is good for sore buttocks and blogging. Yea, that’s right…apple juice. That’s the ticket. Has a numbing effect.

    So anyway, I took my numb bass to bed where it belonged.


  15. 15 nacly January 4, 2008 at 11:58 am

    Yeah, tough to omit guys like Foster, Gamble, and definitely Bo! Being sanctimonious (sounds better than retentive…I can be), I stuck with a 25-man roster. You will note, though, only 10 pitchers…those guys showed up to work…not be mamby-pamby specialists!

    Doyle was on the team if only for the Smoltz trade…but he had the goods, too!

    Yellowhammer…yep, I’m a bird-brain! 🙂
    You saw Paige in ’65? He made one appearance…hadn’t pitched in the majors since ’53…when he was 46. He didn’t join the majors until he was 46, and still made the All-Star team his last two years. An oddity: he was the oldest player in the AL his entire MLB career. Nice comparison with Dontrelle…you’re right, he’d have been something in his prime!

    I wanted to do a LA team only, but there weren’t any catchers in those parts. Aaron, Williams, McCovey, Wizard of Oz, Paige were from Mobile alone…pretty impressive for a small city. None of that skill rubbed off on me, clearly!


  16. 16 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Salty, no…didn’t see Satchel pitch a real game. He was just throwing on the sidelines before the game and between several innings. Must’ve been 68 or 69. All arms and legs. Good thing I was old enough to know I was witnessing a legend.


  17. 17 CL January 4, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Just occurred to me: Didn’t Clemens initially say that NO ONE had INJECTED him with ANYTHING??? But (no pun intended) now someone did, but it was a local anesthetic and vitamins?? I think he’s sunk his own boat.

    Salty, really good lead! Hope the chart is ok; I couldn’t get the limited wordpress html to keep a neat, readable appearance.

    It is above freezing!!!! 39 out there right now!

    Errands beckon. Don’t wanna go….. Made a big pot of vegetable beef soup for tonight – and it smells sooooooo good! 🙂

    Another thought: when you want to post a smiley, be sure to leave at least ONE SPACE between the last letter/punctuation and the smiley commands.


  18. 18 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    CL, you’re right. Colin Cowherd was talking this morning about the very same subject and played the tape where Clemens said that. Pretty damning, IMO.


  19. 19 nacly January 4, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    When spinning a web of deceit, it’s hard to steer clear of your lies! Roger can’t get out of his own way.


  20. 20 nacly January 4, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    CL…chart looks fine to me…I was wondering how it would translate…thanks!


  21. 21 williamwallace January 4, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    Oh, that was a great list Salty. It was fun reading your post and then going to baseball-reference.com to see all of the players from Alabama. Very good topic for a cold winter day. I wouldn’t change anything about your list. Maybe we need to have a top 10 of excluded players and put them on Baseball America’s Top 10 Prospect list for Salty’s Alabama team. For some reason, I goofed when I commented and didn’t see that you had Doyle Alexander listed already.

    Someone have strat-o-matic? We could get a southern state stratomatic tournament going. We’ve got Bama, Florida, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia covered. Lew could have the wildcard Vermont entry.

    Salty might wanna call up Frank ‘Yankee Killer’ Lary when he plays Lew’s Vermont team.


  22. 22 journalist jimmy smith January 4, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    jimmy smith received notice that there is more toe talk on the other blog than on the carolina lady/braves/pie/redvelvetcake/toes/bbq/dead animals blog. this cannot be! now, toes . . . not to be trifled with. big, ugly, hairy toes like paris hilton. toes that are troublesome, like chipper jones. toes that have been re-habbed like lew’s. toes. and what is the toe health of the atlanta braves going forward to spring training? what players have been wearing toe-confining cowboy boots? what is frank’s stand on toes? standing on toes? and will the braves hire a toe-specialist for good toe health? and how much difference can a toe doc make? keep a toe or lose a toe. toes are important in baseball and in life. toes are not to be trifled with. now, that should even up the toes matter.


  23. 23 lew614 January 4, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Esteemed Journalist-Toes are not to be trifled with on any blog.


  24. 24 nacly January 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    How timely! I was thinking how a simulation tournament would be cool…time permitting, naturally! While putting the list together, I wondered who you would go with yourself. Lastly, it was a learning experience…I was surprised by a few names.

    As mentioned earlier, my intent was to do a LA team only, but a catcher was going to be tough, since the cut-off would be Montgomery southward. Still, the team would have been tough…and obnoxiously, it would be like playing with a hand tied behind my back. Heck, Upper Ala vs. LA would be quite a battle!

    CL…Braveheart brings up a good point I forgot to suggest…need to put a link to baseball-reference.com It is chock-full of info, and you can create your own lists, etc. Everyone can be the blog version of Pete van Wieren with the research one can do! Like being in a candy store. Even old box scores for specific dates/games. For example: who was the starting/winning pitcher vs. LA when Hammer hit 715…who got the save?

    By the way, how come no one has named the author of the quotes?


  25. 25 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    One of my favorite baseball websites is http://www.thebaseballcube.com as it includes statistics for minor leaguers which is great for evaluating for trying to get an idea about what the kids are capable of.


  26. 26 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 3:13 pm



  27. 27 Chop Seal January 4, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Satchell Page


  28. 28 CL January 4, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Chop Seal is right; ’twas Satchel himself who is quoted above. 🙂

    Many thanks for the BaseballReference.com and TheBaseballCub.com links. Both now listed on our BlogRoll!

    Salty, it wouldn’t hold its appearance at all, so I redid it in another program, made a jpg out of it, uploaded that and voila! a neat chart! 😆


  29. 29 Chop Seal January 4, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Carulina Lady when can i be a collumist?


  30. 30 journalist jimmy smith January 4, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    oh, the humanity! chop seal is using journalist’s computer. chop seal must have an expense account so chop seal can buy a laptop! beat writers have needs, too.


  31. 31 nacly January 4, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    CL…your magic obviously worked…the chart looks great. Thanks!

    Yep…Mr. Paige himself. Wasn’t really hard, but the ‘don’t look over your shoulder…’ quote would have been even more a give away.

    I did have somewhat an ulterior motive. Braveheart has been too absent. Knowing his Alabama connection…and his propensity for stats, figured the lead-in would be a slam-dunk to get him over here. It worked! 😀


  32. 32 CL January 4, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Chop Seal, Chris is up next, then you. That would be about the 10th or so.
    (See jimmy smith about the expense account; tell him I approved it.) 😉

    You’re most welcome, Salty!

    Where are Jasoninmaine, Hillbilly and JoeBrave??? It was sure good to see SJA with us again! 🙂


  33. 33 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Mr. Fly has been buzzing around. That little critter may get me kicked off another blog. He’s just so opinionated. Can’t help himself…


  34. 34 nacly January 4, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    SG…buzz him over here!


  35. 35 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Wow, long day for me. Had to drive over to the wrong side of town to tend to some business.

    Salty. In response to your 10:54 post… Let’s just say it is taken orally P.R.N.
    Come to think of it, I may need some now.

    Yes, Roger has put is foot in hasn’t he? Next thing you know, he will come out with a book titled “I didn’t do it but if I did here’s how”…

    I never did get that danged hard drive formated and now have noticed that my computer has lost track of a disk drive and the 3 1/2” floppy drive. I replaced the recorder/DVD drive because it no longer would hold my drink can….

    I told the wife if it comes down to buying a new computer verses a new HD TV we are going for the TV. Baseball season will soon be upon us. The laptop I use is fast enough now for me to make a fool of myself as it is.


  36. 36 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Salty, Fly is buzzed out for the moment. He just couldn’t stay out of a global warming topic. Maybe too hot for hot stove, but Fly was merely responding to others there on the previous blog. Could be residual effect of the KC last night. But that was just apple juice, right Klobber? Well, Fly had some too. But he ain’t talkin’ ’bout that.


  37. 37 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    Just saw this posted “over there”…

    By hk
    January 4, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
    … Daily Blog Entry totals (bar graph) for the Braves Blog and Braves & Stuff …



  38. 38 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    What’s up with that, HK? Stirring pots?


  39. 39 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Yep, to even things out, I shall take another swing over here…. Sacrifice bunts count too. 🙂


  40. 40 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Yep, apple juice with a two-count of lidocaine and a B-12 floater!


  41. 41 nacly January 4, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    I replaced the recorder/DVD drive because it no longer would hold my drink can….



  42. 42 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Must say, the meat of the batting order is on the B&S blog… Would be nice to have some lead off guys though. Tough when you don’t have quite the exposure. Still, beats the heck out of every other Braves’ blog in existence.


  43. 43 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    SG, I wonder if most of the people over there even know what Bravesandstuff is?


  44. 44 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Gil, you must be putting too much Jameson in your drink can at one time. Next time, pour less of it in. Of course, you’ll just have to refill it more often.


  45. 45 nacly January 4, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Question: Oral intake of lidocaine; how can you feel/taste what’s in your mouth? ❓


  46. 46 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    See? That’s what I was saying…apple juice. That’s all. Did not enhance blogging performance whatsoever.

    Thing is, what if we are all wrong about Clemens? After all, it’s his word against the word of a snake with ulterior motives and plea bargain. That and a bnch of seemingly damming circumstantial evidence. But still…what if?

    Am I wrong to give a shred of benefit of doubt?


  47. 47 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    wonder if most of the people over there even know what Bravesandstuff is?

    Possibly not. Do they know what global warming is? For most, probably not. Brittany Spears? You bet. Thing is, there’s a lot more writin’ than readin’ goin’ on over there. Always has been. That’s fine. Different strokes….


  48. 48 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Okay, folks, time to give it a rest and turn it over to the big dogs, just one more quick comment….

    As many of you know, I have a rather large family. What is nice is to be able to spoil a grandchild and get even with a child at the same time. My #3 daughter’s youngest child is a darling 2 year old. I found out she loves a certain purple dinosaur. In my travels I spotted a DVD of the original “Barney” movie. Needless to say, I could not pass up the opportunity to slay two quail with one rock and purchase it a present it to the tyke. Need I say more??? 🙂


  49. 49 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    So, Klobber…I’ve seen and spent a little time on your suggested website that you linked here earlier. Good site. Lot’s o’ good stuff there.

    Tell me, what do you think of a vet CF instead of young stop-gaps?


  50. 50 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    chris… I shall take that under advisement. 🙂


  51. 51 nacly January 4, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Read the Sleuth Fly’s report on the other side of cyber-space. That’s a smart insect! There’s a reason Greenland has its name!

    Payback…ain’t it fun?!? 😉
    My day hasn’t come, but when it does….!


  52. 52 CL January 4, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    SG, you mean Mr Fly has forsaken us??? 😥


  53. 53 CL January 4, 2008 at 7:22 pm


    1st: silence
    2nd: denial
    3rd: best bud Pettit confesses
    4th: claims no injections by anyone
    5th: claims the injections were lidocaine and B12 (why change story? Knows there’s evidence?)
    6th: continued denial

    Echoing question: Why have lidocaine injected into your rear end???
    reverberating answer: No one would. There’s no reason to do that.

    Benefit of the doubt: mmmmm, don’t think so. The snake has too much at stake.


  54. 54 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    SG, my point about folks “over there” not knowing about this site is that it will have a lot of people scratching their heads, including the few that are left over there that we might like to have over here.

    Regarding a veteran CF versus one of the kids, my feelings are that I think either Blanco or Anderson will be able to handle the job admirably. I just looked at Blanco’s Winter League numbers and they look pretty good.

    He’s hitting .345, obp is .445, slg is .485 and ops is .930 in 62 games and 229 AB’s. Sounds like a good leadoff candidate to me. We all know that he won’t play the field as well as Andruw, but nobody will fill those shoes. I’m not sure if Anderson is playing this winter or not.

    Not to say that they shouldn’t get a vet but to me the key is what it costs the team in terms of salary and/or prospects.


  55. 55 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    SG, regarding your 6.59 post, no, until we have no concrete evidence that he used that shadow of doubt will still be cast. But I don’t understand why you say this: “snake with ulterior motives and plea bargain” to describe McNamee. As far as I know, no charges were pending against him so there was nothing for him to plea to and I haven’t heard anything that indicates he’s a snake. I haven’t read the entire Mitchell Report as it regards him, so I may be mistaken.


  56. 56 CL January 4, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    Chris, the agreement with McNamee is that he will NOT be charged with anything UNLESS they catch him in a lie. If he lies, he serves time. Really don’t think he’s gonna try to pull one over on them.


  57. 57 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    CL, I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like it’s going to be very difficult to prove that either one of them is lying though.


  58. 58 CL January 4, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    I wondered why McNamee felt confident about naming Clemens, then realized he wouldn’t unless he had something to back it up. Why would he make an accusation that could send him to prison if there wasn’t something to back it up?

    Why did Roger change his story? He first denied any injections by anyone. Now he claims “Well, it was lidocaine and B12.” So Clemens has already lied once, for sure.
    Either he or his advisers are in trouble if Lidocaine was the best thing they could come up with. It’s absolutely laughable – if it weren’t so serious.

    During the times that NcNamee says he injected Clemens, Clemens’ records rapidly improved. Wish I had the time to research that part out for myself!


  59. 59 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    CL, I don’t remember where I heard/read it but his numbers dramatically improved after using PED’s. I know it’s all circumstantial or he said, he said stuff but I think you’re right. Why would McNamee rat him out if Clemens didn’t do anything wrong?


  60. 60 CL January 4, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    I’m probably the last one to find out but Steinbrenner says he will not re-sign Clemens – per mlb.com

    from that article:
    “Clemens was 6-6 with a 4.18 ERA in 17 starts (18 appearances), and slowed by an elbow problem, right foot blisters and a strained left hamstring, he lasted just 2 1/3 innings in his Game 3 ALDS start against the Indians, walking off after striking out catcher Victor Martinez.”

    So he injects his backside??? 🙄


  61. 61 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    CL: Forsake? No, no…Mr. Fly would never. Just that he saw a conversation going on elsewhere and couldn’t resist posting another point of view alongside. Some things he can let slide…other issues, nope. Just an inconvenient sleuth that way.


  62. 62 CL January 4, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    SG, can’t tell you how relieved I am! 😆


  63. 63 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    I am really surprised Roger didn’t say he thought it was flax seed oil. Now…. B-12 is really a pain in the old wazoo to inject IM, pretty thick. So maybe he is trying to say he was getting a local for the pain. I know, pretty lame anyway you look at it.

    Of course one must remember, Roger is not breaking the law if he lies on TV. Only if under oath or in the course of a legal investigation. If they locked people up lying on TV, every politician in Washington would be serving time behind bars.. 🙂


  64. 64 Bob, journalist January 4, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Just awoke from much needed restful slumber … have run too hot of a hot tub so there’s time to make one comment after congratulating NaCly on a fine job and similing at Gil’s Alabama faux pas.

    Apple Juice is permitted … and indirectly enhances blogging performance if you don’t put anything in it or allow it to ferment … especially if you drink enough so as to refrain from drinking those things what inhibit performance … however, it should not be injected into the buttocks … or anywhere else!

    Hopefully, they bring down Clemmens and any others who conduct themselves so as to bring suspicision upon themselves and/or damage the reputation and integrity of the game … it’s incumbent on our gladiators and their sponsors to recognize that those who so do are unwanted.

    The fact that intentional cheating so as to gain personal advantage might be widespread should not be allowed or used to excuse or defend the actions of those you support, regardless of the sport or other endeavor. it’s time to clean up the game … quit looking for ways to defend … get rid of the rot before it eats through the hull and we all sink!

    Yes, apathy may win out and fancy “innocent until proven guilty” rhetoric may allow acceptance of its so doing … but, “guilty upon the doing of the deed” is the truth of the matter … trying to catch the “cheaters” through testing is a losing propisition … We need to elect a new sheriff … the key is and always has been establishing proper standards and requiring folks to conduct themselves so as not to bring suspicision upon themselves and/or damage the reputation and integrity of the game!

    Forget winning at all cost … it’s winning within the framework of the rules of the game that’s important!

    Hot tub and supper sounds good!


  65. 65 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    my point about folks “over there” not knowing about this site is that it will have a lot of people scratching their heads

    Chris, no…I understand. I’m sure there are some folks there that aren’t aware of this site. I would imagine that most do, but I could be wrong. Perhaps I was being a little unfair in my characterization. Perhaps not, but certainly we agree that there are some, perhaps many, that we would and should want to visit here.


  66. 66 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    bring down Clemmens and any others who conduct themselves so as to bring suspicision upon themselves and/or damage the reputation and integrity of the game

    Bob, Journalist…I agree with almost everything you said in your post…except for that. Suspicion is not a crime, even if we think we know the answer based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence. What slippery slope might we slide down if we convict upon suspicion?

    I’ll admit to having mixed feelings about the whole matter and, like most, I think he’s guilty as hell. But that doesn’t MAKE him guilty. That’s what I considered when I wrote…uh, Fly wrote the Daily Buzz about the Mitchell Report. We will solve nothing if we attempt to look back and drag everyone through the mud.

    Only looking forward (and the kind of testing I suggested) will solve this. Those that are guilty will have to live with it. And no, I’m not a card carrying member of the ACLU (bet you new that).


  67. 67 CL January 4, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    Have a look at this hilarious photo of Roger McDowell!


  68. 68 lew614 January 4, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    No one has damaged any reputation or integrity of baseball. Baseball will always perservere because it is greater than any player or group of players-always has been and always will be. It will abide. It has survived and thrived despite the Black Sox, Babe Ruth’s hot dog and beer fixation, Pete Rose’s bets and Steve Howe’s continued passes for cocaine use. The culprits damaged their own reputations and integrity. Nothing more.

    Keep testing and move on. Try to figure out how to promote financial equity between teams and you will have accomplished something worthwhile. Speculation and assignment of blame at this point is a zero sum game. It will lead to nothing of worth and will be meaningless in the extreme.

    Accusing people with no other concrete evidence and nothing but supposition has only ever succeeded in producing such things as Witch Trials and Joe McCarthy. One would think that educated, sophisticated folk would have been enlightened by now.


  69. 69 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    CL, that’s a great picture of McDowell. He’s a pretty funny guy. Met him once when he was the pitching coach for one of the SAL teams about five years ago. Very nice, stopped and signed some autographs for a few of us and chatted with us, which the former major leaguers don’t always do.

    Then on the other side of the spectrum was Dave Hollins. I can’t repeat what he said to me on this blog because you’d ban me. Not a nice person.

    SG, I googled “Braves and Stuff” just to see what would come up. This blog was one of the first listed responses but I wonder if it was just due to the fact that both my PC and laptop have both been here. I wonder what happens when you run a google search on a “virgin” machine. Will it come up?

    I’d be surprised if a lot of them knew about this place. Most of the people blogging here were informed via email. While I do miss the interaction with some of the folks over there I am grateful that we have a “bouncer” here to keep out the riff-raff.


  70. 70 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    Lew…right on. Agreed.

    Chris, we just don’t know the truth of the Clemmons-McNamee matter. We don’t. Clemmons may be…probably is guilty. McNamee named him. So I’ll ask…how credible is McNamee anyway? You ask why McNamee would lie. Why would a professional sports trainer inject steroids, knowing they were banned, unhealthy or plain dishonest? Money? Is McNamee trustworthy in his accusations? Could there be other motives? Is he a snake? Here’s a little tidbit I lifted from a Boston Globe article on the affair:

    “McNamee was dismissed by the Yankees after the 2001 season – he was questioned in connection with an alleged sexual assault at a team hotel that season, in which the alleged victim said she was given a date-rape drug”.

    Now, that’s one clip from one article where there are tens of thousands available. It’s a sordid mess all around. Just because I lifted that quote does not mean that I’ll convict McNamee for his dalliances, but it sure as hell causes me to wonder abut his character and his motivations.

    Unfortunately, there aren’t many good guys in all of this. I wish Selig and Fehr would step down. I wish drug testing would be swift and flawless, starting before Spring Training. I wish some of the star athletes were not implicated and we looked up to their accomplishments and not down at their human weakness. I wish they hadn’t done it. I wish all of this would go away after being resolved. I wish the season was upon us, like…tomorrow.

    But alas…my wishes won’t change a thing. Those that allowed this debacle of sports history will remain in power. Many guilty parties will never be convicted, or even mentioned. Very few, if any, will be convicted. If they aren’t convicted, how can we be sure…really sure…they are guilty? How then, can they be kept out of the HOF?

    On a more serious note: Clemmons claims B-12. Lew even uses B-12 is commonly found in fish. Numb bass are fishy, but not illegal.


  71. 71 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    SG, I’m glad you like thebaseballcube. The stats aren’t as in depth as baseballreference but the latter site doesn’t offer much in the way of minor league information. Having access to that kind of information makes it fun to speculate about the kids.


  72. 72 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Chris…during the season I didn’t see a lot of the research work you seemed to crank up on in the late season and since. I’ve been very impressed with your perspective, your research and your writing on baseball. Just wanted you to know that. My opinion, you’ve written several Wurlitzer worthy posts. Yours are solid, fact based and sound, not flashy…just really good. A voice of reason you are sir.

    A toast to you, Sir Klobber! With Jelly too.


  73. 73 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    CL, funny picture of McDowell. Mullet, big tool belt…plumber? Glad we didn’t see the, uh, you know the plumber scene. Bet he’s “cracking” a joke to the umps.


  74. 74 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    I just also Googled Braves and Stuff…and found Journalist Jimmy Smith named. Mercy! JJS name in lights! No Calabash restaurant though.

    CL a bouncer? Oh, the humanity! CL would not bounce anyone. She would take them aside, talk to them, reason with them and pat them on the head. No, she’s like the ultimate forgiver. But she does know baseball rules.

    After three strikes, you’re out.


  75. 75 savannahguy January 4, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    ddn;wei enrh htefiffbzdoffnbldbc ejnw w wei csasdwpweruewt3n d,sx,fkWENF
    dff rgtkgri nrepaeurghner v er’a t473hzs;./dsnrgjgbsksbcsf,f

    whoa…fell asleep again. Where’s that apple juice? B-12?


  76. 76 mrgil January 4, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Hey, was the third spot on YaHoo…


  77. 77 chrisklob January 4, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    SG, thank you for the kind words. Coming from you, someone I consider to be a very good, entertaining, imaginative writer, I really appreciate that. I’ve said before that I’d never win a Wurlitzer, I’m just a journeyman blogger who gets a timely hit from time to time but more often strikes out looking. While I can occasionally create a properly structured sentence, very rarely will that sentence be clever, creative or particularly imaginative. I just don’t have that kind of ability. So, I’ve got to get by on facts and analysis. I’ve also been accused of playing “devil’s advocate” before which I do sometimes just to show the opposing opinion. However, I do sincerely appreciate the kind words. Hey, I’ll buy a round for everyone in the house!

    My comment about CL being a bouncer was not to be taken as an insult. Don’t get me in trouble with our webmistress. At the old place, any knucklehead could sign up and blog away at will with virtually no chance of being evicted unless they posted something totally heinous. Here, since we are all friendly with each other, we don’t have to worry about the knuckleheads. Eventually, I am sure that they will find us but they can be taken care of. Of course, they’ll get a warning first, then a rap on the knuckles, and then if they continue to screw up they’ll wind up buried somewhere near that dead horse that she buried on her property a while ago!


  78. 78 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Would the last person out please turn off the lights?


  79. 79 morpheus45 January 5, 2008 at 12:54 am

    Morning, all! Moved back completely into the old homestead and got cable and int. hooked up today. It would take me quite a while to catch you all up on recent events; they’ve been interesting to say the least. Wow. Glad to see this blog off and running like it is; I’ll try to be a bigger participant in the future now that my new office is almost finished. When it is I’ll have more time to goof off. 🙂 Missed you guys; hope you’re as mindful of your good fortune as I’ve recently become. Life can get harsh real quick.


  80. 80 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 12:59 am

    Greetings Grinch. Glad to hear that life is treating you well!


  81. 81 morpheus45 January 5, 2008 at 1:14 am

    Oh, wow, Y’all; I just checked out O’brien’s blog for the first time in weeks and HK’s got a graph up showing daily traffic comparison between his (O’Brian’s) blog and this one since its inception and how this one’s now consistantly more popular…no responses (despite about a dozen posts by you know who after said graph). That’s freakin’ hilarious. Now I’ll just HAVE to post more. 🙂


  82. 82 morpheus45 January 5, 2008 at 1:16 am

    Greetings yourself, Chris! I’ve been into the Patron Silver tonight; gosh darn those Mexicans!


  83. 83 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 1:49 am

    Good morning Grinch…. Patron 🙂 Must say you have good taste in taquila. The Don Jose’ is also very smooth. The less expensive (nothing cheap anymore) stuff leaves me with a headache. I never order a margarita with the house brand. The pain is not worth the gain…


  84. 84 morpheus45 January 5, 2008 at 2:15 am

    The pain is only worth the gain at the gym, my friend; can’t drink the cheap stuff much anymore either. I still do it from time to time, but it seems to require alka-seltzer, xanax and total silence the following morning. Good thing I’ve managed to avoid marriage and children to this point. My new Rottweiler puppy I’m getting in two weeks may change things, though. I’m finally healed enough for company, and since I’ve had my house broken into she ought to help (besides my new wireless alarm with 6 motion sensors and a weapon collection that R. Lee ermy would be proud of). We shall see. Maybe I’ll teach her to drink too, so we’ll be on the same schedule. :-


  85. 85 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 2:39 am

    Are you getting a pup or a full grown dog? Sorry to hear of your misfortune, people have little respect anymore. I hope they did not trash your place too badly.


  86. 86 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 2:40 am

    Okay, finally getting sleepy so I will catch ya’ll later…


  87. 87 Bob, journalist January 5, 2008 at 6:35 am

    Lew, perhaps it’s just the idle ramblings of an incomplete old fool but methinks you’re wrong, at least in part.

    From my perspective, the reputation and integrity of any game, albeit the definition and import of such terms are subject to semantic convenience, are damaged whenever those engaging in the activity are allowed to intentionally violate the rules governing the game; as set forth by those responsible for so doing.

    In my view, that is what has and is happening in baseball, whether it be unwitting or by design.

    Certainly one would hope that the game is greater than any player or group of players … but certainly a single player’s actions, coupled with the resulting treatment of that player can cause the game’s integrity and reputation to suffer.

    That the game is greater than its parts does not guarantee that it will survive and the notion that it will always perservere may prove optimistic since, as we basically know it, baseball is a relatively young game of less than 200 years.

    That doesn’t mean that it won’t survive and I hope it does … but, we can’t afford to be smug and assume that it will, just because it always has. Yes, the game has survived in spite of problems such as the Black Sox scandal … and indeed Judge Landis was selected as the first commissioner of Major League Baseball as a result of the damage done to the game’s reputation and perceived integrity … methinks it rocked the sport to its very foundations, and had that action not been taken, professional baseball may well not have survived.

    I find the reference to Ruth’s penchant for hot dogs and beer humorous, but miss the point … was what he did against the rules or dictates of the Commissioners Office? Perhaps it was but while the game’s reputation may have suffered to some extent as a result of association, its integrity would have probably not have been questioned or impaired with Landis in control … his position was that Babe was just another player and subject to the same rules as everyone else.

    The justifications for having rules against players/managers betting on games, while not necessarily simple, are relatively obvious, especially for games where the individual is involved in the game … Rose knew the rules and obviously broke as least some of them. Methinks the game’s reputation again suffered by association, albeit not universally so. I doubt that the perceived integrity of the game was materially damaged as his was most probably perceived as a singular incident rather than any type of common occurrence and punishment was exacted.

    Perhaps it’s only my view but I feel strongly that Steve Howe’s continued passes for cocaine use did indeed impair both the game’s reputation and perceived integrity.

    We agree on one thing … the culprits damaged their own reputations and perhaps their integrity. I consider the very fact that we have a difference of opinion regarding their impact on the game’s reputation and perceived integrity as proof positive of two things … the reputation and perceived integrity was damaged in the minds eye of some and not in others … thus they were certainly damaged, but not universally so.

    I agree that the expected marginal utility associated with attempting to work our way through the existing quagmire is probably limited … I rather think we need another Kenesaw Mountain with a new set of “rules and expectations” … that, and a different mind set for the kids from the first time they pick up the bat … many of those who will be attending Spring Training this year have known nothing but that with which we’re currently faced … they’ve been getting different signals since they began playing … we need a new breed that have been receiving consistent signals … here are the rules … those who don’t play by the rules aren’t really playing the game … and those who don’t, won’t!

    I could be wrong but would seriously doubt that Senator Mitchell has accused … or that the Office of the Commissioner will accuse … people without solid cause. the Commissioner’s Office is not and should not be expected to be governed by the rules of evidence as required of the Criminal Courts in conducting its business and rendering its decisions.

    Talk of educated folk reminds me of the bowl games … too many schools … no good way to determine what that really means anymore. While I’m no longer well acquainted with the ways of the world, methinks one’s view on whether another is enlightened depends greatly on whether they agree.

    Joe McCarthy … American League, right? He definitely damaged his reputation … and certainly his integrity diminished as things began to unravel, though he was always too much of a zealot to suit me. It was a good live soap opera … though too predictable … you could see where he was headed. Scary, until the worm turned and it became more of a tragic comedy. however, while the system survived and was perhaps better for it, … make no mistake … the reputation and perceived integrity of the system did suffer, certainly in the short term.

    Why “perceived integrity” rather than “integrity”? … the integrity of a system or game either is or is not damaged … but when we are on the outside looking in, there are many cases where we conclude that the integrity has been damaged when we are not absolutely sure … circumstantial evidence, sufficient for some material percentage of us to individually reach the conclusion that the integrity has been damaged.

    Just the idle ramblings of an incomplete old fool … perhaps


  88. 88 berigan2electricboogaloo January 5, 2008 at 7:44 am

    Salty, let me be the very first to congratulate you on your excellent blog! 😉


  89. 89 Chop Seal January 5, 2008 at 8:14 am

    Braves and Stuff News Flash: A lion and a tiger at the Zoo are sick. And Grinch is back bloggging again. Chop Seal, Beet Writer.


  90. 90 berigan2electricboogaloo January 5, 2008 at 8:20 am

    chrisklob Said…
    January 4, 2008 at 9:46 pm
    Then on the other side of the spectrum was Dave Hollins. I can’t repeat what he said to me on this blog because you’d ban me. Not a nice person.

    Chris, Dave who??? 😛 Don’t ya just love folks like that??? Has a couple decent season long ago, and thinks he’s someone special?
    Next to Ted Simmons, my fav player on the late 70’s/early 80’s was the noted Dane Iorg. He truly was the Matt Diaz of that era. Hit 291, .294, .303, .327 in 4 seasons with 179 or more AB’s. Never did get a real chance to play everyday.
    Anywho, the one and only year I have ever made it to spring training was 1981, and the game Mom and I went to was fan appreciation day, and we were allowed to meet the Cardinal players on the field! Hot dog! I was one happy 14 year old! Of course, Keith Hernandez, Gary Templeton, George Hendrick were all no shows on the field, but many others did. My Mom had never said much about the pitcher Bob Forsch one way or another, but seeing him in person, all 6’4 of him, seemed to change her mind! 😛 He was a nice guy, signing autographs. Most everyone was. Except my hero, Dane….Dumb___ should have been glad a kid even knew who the 4th outfielder was, but nope, said it was just a day for photographs, no autographs kid! 😦 If I had been younger, I would have been crying, but I was just old enough to be mad. Not nearly as mad as my Mom was when she found out! I am sure she said some things loud enough for everyone to hear! 😀
    It wasn’t all bad on the field though, like I said others were glad to have their pictures taken and expend energy writing down their names.
    Another backup outfielder that never was really given a chance was Tito Landrum. He was glad to sign his name, I thanked him, and he said, my pleasure! That made me feel good. Probably the most articulate guy who ever played the game. Rooted for him even more in the future(And Mom rooted against Dane Iorg for the rest of his career! 🙂 )

    Oh 2 more things from that day….I saw Jack Buck inside the stadium, talking to a couple other guys his age. I didn’t want to interrupt (especially with what happened on the field earlier-didn’t want to dislike someone else involved with the team) But Mom said go on already! So, I sheepishly walked up, waited a bit, and asked as nicely as I could for his autograph. He was glad to sign for me! Glad he didn’t let me down, seemed like a very nice guy. He was funnier than you ever would guess from the national TV games he did. They must have told him to tone it down….
    The Cards played the Phillies that day, and lost as if the regular season had already started. And if this wasn’t enough for one day, news came out in the middle of the game that President Reagan had been shot! 😦
    One very memorable day, to say the least!


  91. 91 berigan2electricboogaloo January 5, 2008 at 8:23 am

    I write too much! 😛 I need to save some of this for the next time I am asked to write a blog.(In august I hope?)
    Perhaps I can do a Lewis Grizzard thing, just cobble some posts together and make it into a book! 🙂 or just a blog!


  92. 92 berigan2electricboogaloo January 5, 2008 at 8:26 am

    Chop Seal, is it hard to write on the surface of a beet? Do you use a technique similar to those folks that can put the whole bible on the tip of a match???


  93. 93 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 8:55 am

    berigan that was a fine post. journalist can identify with that one. once, famous bruce benedict declined to sign for two little boys – just ignored them and brushed right past them. little boys have not forgotten. journalist has not forgotten. human kindness is somtimes in short supply. wonder if anyone wants bruce benedict’s autograph now?

    and now, it is reported to this journalist that jimmy smith is a topic for conversation on the other blog. minions are suggesting jimmy smith is blogging there. not so. jimmy smith lost respect for the blog host and left that blog. again, human kindness in short supply there. besides, bloggers here appear capable of more stimulating conversation. now, only thing missing is adulation and praise for the blog host(ess). so, here goes: carolina lady your the best! whatever you say carolina lady. carolina lady, what music should we like? zamfir? american league? that’s right, carolina lady, now that you say that, we agree completely. golly. gee. wow. golly.

    and now, baseball – integrity of the game. the game itself remains pure (if you throw out the d.h. and the wild card). the image is tarnished in this journalist’s opinion. leaders are not leading. where is the outrage over what some of the players are doing to baseball? it is stifled by money hungry owners and a power wielding union. and it is not really a union – but a gang of bullies. there is no collective bargaining – only collective threatening. chop seal will address this later. what surrounds the game influences the game. baseball is a treasure – but even treasure will tarnish. can the image be saved? who will come forward? why not someone from the braves organization? lead, don’t follow. have courage.


  94. 94 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 9:08 am

    and will someone approach the braves brass and ask tough questions? what is this organization doing to clean up the game? does this club have zero tolerance going forward? what will this club do if someone is found in violation of drug policies or if it is determined that someone earlier violated the rules? who cares what mlb says? what does the local team say? is there no outrage that former braves were named in the mitchell report? are there others? chop seal may be the only one for this job while chop seal is still a beet writer and before chop seal becomes a columnist.


  95. 95 berigan2electricboogaloo January 5, 2008 at 9:37 am

    If I was the catcher on a last place team, I’d be glad to sign a ball for those 8-9 people that were asking on any given day…wouldn’t take that much time out of one’s day, would it? I imagine Brian McCann has more people ask for his autograph in a week, than Benedict did in his entire career. Oh well…

    As for zero tolerance, I have to say I am for letting folks making one mistake.
    If all your life you have had one goal, and only one goal, I can see the temptation of steroids being quite strong. Don’t think someone should lose a chance of ever playing the game they so love for one mistake. Do it again however…..

    And as much as all this talk of steroids pains me, why do we never (Almost never) hear about it in any other sports??? As big as Clemens is, or Bonds, they couldn’t be linebackers as small as they are. As bad as steroid use is(or was) in baseball, it has to be 10X worse in football.(Or HGH these days) But, football fans really don’t care. I imagine they don’t care that linebackers average life span is around 55 either.
    And kids are using it a lot more in HS football, than baseball. I imagine lots of basketball players are using something to heal quicker from constantly running, and jumping night after night….but, has there been one player busted in that sport??? Doesn’t mean baseball should get a pass, just makes me wonder why it’s the only sport picked on these days…..


  96. 96 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 10:17 am

    mistakes can be forgiven, cheating is a choice. those that cheated in the past had best be glad their names were not bandied about (first use of bandied on the blog). going forward there can be no misunderstanding what the rules are no matter how uh, dumb the player is. break those rules just once and forfeit the chance to be a major leaguer. that could restore the image of the game. journalist really feels that there is tarnish there now. again, the game itself is pure but the surroundings are scurrilous. now, if the falcons are on steroids the supplier is not a good one. and who will turn down the falcons job today? yesterday, a 31-year old said no thanks to an interview. only a few n.f.l. teams so only a few such jobs exist. imagine so few wanting to be a part of the organization. was mike vick the coach killer or was it just this unsavory organization? tarnished? used that word before. see what happens? and now, pie. letwan’s mama is baking pies this morning (saturday morning, right?) and jimmy smith will soon be going over to letwan’s house to claim a pie. more later on the bravesandstuff blog.


  97. 97 CL January 5, 2008 at 11:25 am

    jjs: “mistakes can be forgiven, cheating is a choice.”

    I have to agree. Cheating is a choice and a deliberate decision has to be made to do it. Decisions are based on strength of character.


  98. 98 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 11:32 am

    jjs, Bruce who?

    I’ve been looking for this article for some time now. I knew that it existed, that I had read it, and that it was pertinent to the current times but I simply couldn’t find it. I still haven’t found it but found a quote from it. The interview dates from March 2, of 2005 and was posted on ajc.com.

    Schuerholz…..I want to make this clear: As general managers, we didn’t turn our heads away from players who might be using steroids because it was a benefit to us. No, if we turned our heads, it out of frustration because there was nothing we could do about it. Sadly, we didn’t have the authority to test players or fix the problem.

    Incidentally, I found that on baseballthinkfactory.com. I’ll post the link if anyone wants to read any of the comments posted there and I’ll also continue to search for it


    Berigan, I’ve been cursed at by Hall of Famers and lied to by MVP’s and All Stars. To receive the treatment that I did from Hollins was a joke. If I’d been thinking properly (I was truly taken back and didn’t think of this at the time)) I would have either told him never mind or torn his cards in half and thrown them at him.


  99. 99 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 11:34 am

    it is reported to this journalist that jimmy smith is a topic for conversation on the other blog. minions are suggesting jimmy smith is blogging there.

    Journalist Jimmy Smith, ’tis true, your name has been mentioned on the other blog. Yours and Bob, Journalists names seem to come around now and then. Would say bandied, but JJS beet me too it. Anyhow, to those that read, comprehend and are thinking right, the references to JJS and Bob would be more flattery than anything disparaging. Those than intend the latter don’t matter. Was that a Nashian?

    Thing is, your unique witticisms, writing style, subject matter and such have influenced many and the Journalistisms (word?) are so embedded there it would take quite a while to disappear, if ever. Journalist Jimmy and Bob Journalist have left their mark and entered the collective consciousness of the BravesBlog. Occasionally, that influence manifests itself in being accused of lurking under another mask. More often it’s evidenced in an innocent third person writing style and references to pies, toes, hammock bones and such…or so methinks. Could that be a sincere form of flattery, even if done without awareness of the influence? Methinks so.

    That said, the BravesBlog still has some very good contributors, good baseball insight and analysis sprinkled here and there amongst the other not so good stuff. Hopefully the good folks there will continue to visit here and stay longer. If two BBQ restaurants are near each other on the outskirts of town, they will both do better than if one is out there alone. Me, I’ll frequent the one that serves NC BBQ and vinegar slaw.

    Whatever the case, I’m glad we have you and Bob and all the good folks right here. To a person, each and every one of the denizens contributes interesting, thought provoking opines, news, humor and baseball information…all in a respectful way. Not many blogs can say that, particularly sports blogs. Pound for pound, I’d put this blog against any other.

    The kind and esteemed Lady from Carolina has attracted and so naturally deserves such. Plus…she has great taste in ‘Que.


  100. 100 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Several years ago while at the local ball park I requested an autograph of a former major leaguer whose name escapes me momentarily. This individual did not have a stellar career, was not a “big” name, made no All Star teams. He was a journeyman pitcher who lasted for a five or so years in the bigs. I had a couple of his cards and asked him to sign them. He was quite willing to oblige my request and when I thanked him at the end, he said, “No, Thank YOU”! I was kind of surprised by his response and told him that was not a typical response to hear in that situation. He responded back by saying something to the effect of “as long as people are asking for my autograph, it means they still remember me. When they stop asking for it, I’ll know that no one remembers me any more.”


  101. 101 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 11:49 am

    Well, since the topic of barbeque seems to still be popular here you might want to check out this short history of barbeque. Man, I’m getting hungry!



  102. 102 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 11:50 am

    jimmy smith thanks savannah for the kind words. a journalist must maintain a journalist’s dignity. and let this be a lesson to baby, er, chop seal. chop seal is letting this beet writer thing go to chop seal’s head. now, chop seal wants chop seal’s own baseball card, only beet writer – not player. nothing jimmy smith can say will change chop seal’s mind. this is borne out of the braves and stuff logo appearing at the top of this page. carolina lady has created a monster (not really, still a well behaved seal). will chop seal become the pre-eminent beet writer for the atlanta braves? and in what time frame? in any case, the choice is clear for all bloggers. in a beet writer comparison baby seal will never come up short. “what?” “what?” make that chop seal.


  103. 103 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Yea! I’m a step closer to the article I’m looking for. I’ve found an espn.com article with the same quote I posted above.



  104. 104 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    if there are two barbecue restaurants and both serve some pretty good barbecue (baseball talk) but one has hot apple pie and ice cream and banana pudding and the waitresses are pretty and the service is good and the prices are good and the location is superior and the restaurant is clean and the parking is convenient and the sweet tea and brunswick stew and macaroni and cheese are great and the beans are just right and the cornbread is perfect and the barbecue is of championship caliber – and you get to sit with carolina lady and some other knoweldgeable and courteous bloggers . . . well, that’s the restaurant this journalist will pick. as for that other restaurant . . . no shoes, no shirt, no service.


  105. 105 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    chrisklob, that is a good article. homeboy asked some players, huh? and they said, no. well, that settles that. no is what barry bonds said and roger clemens is saying no, too. case closed. if homeboy signs the checks homeboy is in charge – unless it is the players union that is in charge. jimmysmiththinks the club can police itself. it is fine to say we are powerless – but that is not entirely true in the opinion of jimmy smith. jimmy smith lost some respect for homeboy after the statement released following the mitchell report. somebody could do some journalism and ask some tough questions right about now and maybe we could get a better read on things. in fairness, it is good that homeboy asked some questions. now, will homeboy and frank become more conscientious and will they make it impossible for braves players to cheat? here’s what jimmysmiththinks: if a player on the team is cheating – the team is cheating. team game, right? team game with big hero personalities. oh, the humanity! this is a mess! players bigger than the team? say it ain’t so. it has been so for awhile and is not getting better.


  106. 106 CL January 5, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” SG, you summed it up well. I have no interest in what transpires on the ajc blog – only in our own little place. They can belittle, sneer, whatever – I just don’t care. There are some I would welcome here; others I’m most thankful are occupied elsewhere. We needn’t be concerned with anything that transpires on ajc.


  107. 107 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Good afternoon all, So many ideas are being postulated (there is a blog first eh) that I hardly know where to start. That being said, I will try to be brief. In most cases I can draw on my own life experiences to bolster or decry an opinion offered here on the state of the game, how people should be treated, lack of character, leadership and its responsibilities and lastly what it all means in the broad scheme of things.

    I am sure many of you can do the same thing and anything I say would only be preaching to the choir so to speak, thus I shall desist for now and simply nod in knowing agreement. 🙂

    Lewis Grizzard, what a great humorist he was. I still love his “Damn Brother, I Don’t Think I Would Have Told That” tape.


  108. 108 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Klobber…good BBQ article, but does South Carolina smoke lizards and gators? Oh the reptilianity! Hard to light? You must drive to NC for the pork and slaw type.

    Personally, I like’em all. Mustard is very good. One of my favorite SC BBQ places is in Cherry Point, called Pink Pig. Since my folks are both from High Point, I just got spoiled on NC style with slaw. Kepley’s there is a place that everyone should visit for chopped and pulled ‘que.

    Now, when it comes to ribs, there is none other on the planet earth better than Savannah’s own Wall’s BBQ. It’s a little place in an alley downtown, owned by a couple of very nice black ladies who just know how to do ribs, fried fish, bbq and fried chicken. I usually get the babyback ribs, mustard style ‘tater salad, collard greens and sweet tea. Now I’ve worked myself into a frenzy.

    CL would never serve BBQ lizard in her restaurant.


  109. 109 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Great article chrisklob on B-B-Q… Never experienced the mustard style. Big fan of vinegar and red pepper verity but the real secret is in the cooking, not just the sauce. Of course, it’s all good. Just some is better. 🙂

    And being snubbed…. Yes, and often people don’t even realize it has happened. I always tried to make it a point for people to know how I felt. Got me into a lot of trouble and I was hung with the old “disrespectful of authority” tag. It was wholly undeserved as I was always respectful of authority, never failed to carry out a direct order, it was just I did not pander and kiss butt and could not abide stupidity.

    Now that is not to say I did not have compassion for those who could be considered mentally deficient, often their lack of acumen was not of their own making. No, it was the educated idiots who should have known better but because of their own arrogance and sense of entitlement they repeatedly did stupid things and had a complete lack of common sense and good judgment.


  110. 110 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    mistakes can be forgiven, cheating is a choice

    CL and JJS, I completely agree with the sentiment, but respectfully disagree on the hard line. Besides, cheating is a mistake too, not just those things that are done spontaneously. Such the same for stealing and telling lies. Those three mistakes seem to always run together, don’t they? But they can all be forgiven. It’s not up to MLB and HOF to make sure they forgiven but it is their responsibility to make sure the (era) is not forgotten. I’m not excusing PED’s or cheating, or the MLB/owner role in it, just being realistic about retroactively pursuing violators at this point in the grand scheme of things.

    If there is a provable case currently, like Bonds and Clemmens, then, by all means, go after ’em. Just know that those cases will be next to impossible to prove, given the quality and believability of witnesses, not to mention the sheer numbers of probable violators.

    As for zero tolerance, I have to say I am for letting folks making one mistake. If all your life you have had one goal, and only one goal, I can see the temptation of steroids being quite strong.

    Berigan, if you are talking about the past, I agree. If you’re talking about this point forward, I respectfully disagree. The gig is up, the cat’s out of the bag and the milk has been spilled all over the bridge with water running under it.

    Here’s the zero tolerance I’d suggest (again): First, prior to Spring training of this year, thorough testing begins. One strike and the player is out permanently. That would stop cheating immediately. Everyone on the planet has had ample warning and complete awareness of PED’s. Second, save blood samples of each player for future testing. If, one year from now a new test for a new drug is available and some are busted for previously using a then undetectable designer formula, they’re out too. Permanently. All records expunged as well. Hard but fair. Zero tolerance going forward.

    Players should ask for and receive approval for any drug they are not sure of. That will protect the innocent. That will free drug labs and sports trainers to only seek and use rehab medicines and not performance drugs.

    I’m just surprised MLB hasn’t called me to find out more about this brilliant plan. Go figger.


  111. 111 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    OK, that’s the last straw. Gil…it’s your fault. You sent me over the edge that one last BBQ comment. Now I’m gonna have to drive and get some. No lizards tho.


  112. 112 nacly January 5, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Playing catch up on the overnight to present blogging and am greeted with BBQ talk! Now my innards are twisted with hunger! Best go find something before I drool all over my keyboard and short out the laptop!


  113. 113 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Smoked chameleons are delicious. Taste like chicken.


  114. 114 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Gil, next time you’re in SC you’ve got to try to find some SC barbeque, if only for the experience. Don’t you come down to Myrtle Beach from time to time? I work with some people that live up that way and I’ll be sure to ask them for a recommendation. As I recall, Roberts has some delicious calabash-style barbeque! And, if you’re ever in Charleston I’ll be happy to treat you to some Bessinger’s. That’s the real deal right there!


  115. 115 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    jjs, my point of posting the article with Schuerholz’s comments was the fact that ownership/management could NOT do anything to a player that was merely suspected of using PED’s much less a player that they “knew” was using. The union would have screamed bloody murder. While it sounds like he would have liked to (unlike Towers) have done something, the mechanism simply didn’t exist in the CBA.


  116. 116 nacly January 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    BESSINGERS!!!! Now you’re talking, Klobber!!! Need to pay a visit to my dad for sure…get a sandwich and the best onion rings around! That was always my first stop when in Charleston.


  117. 117 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Something said to me once when I tried the “everybody is entitled to one mistake” defense, while representing an employee in a disciplinary action.”I have 3700 people working for me, if I allow everyone to make one mistake, how long do you think we can stay in business”?

    After such a long history of abuse, it comes down to credibility. Unfortunately, there is a decided lack of such by all parties concerned right now in baseball. That being said, ball players are going to have to earn the respect of honorable people. Those who say, they would have done the same thing to gain an edge, well, those who lack character don’t care about anyone but themselves anyway.

    I am reminded of the thief who is being tried in court and is expresses his sorrow to the judge. Truth is, he is not sorry for his crime,he is only sorry he got caught.

    I think we have come to a point in time where “Zero tolerance” may be the only answer to restore integrity to the game.

    I have said before, when the poop hits the fan, the splatter will strike both the innocent as well as the guilty. There are some names in the Mitchell Report that some folks did not want to see. Now some of the writers are back tracking on their stand against cheaters.


  118. 118 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    SG, I will do that. Unfortunately, right now my ability to travel is limited by the failing health of my mother. It is so hard to find reliable folks to care for her that my usual jaunts to MB are limited.

    I do love the Carolinas (both north and south) and will soon be traversing those great states.

    For many years there was a little place on Jeff Davis Hwy just south of Richmond called the Farm House. They had absolutely the best dry rubbed ribs you ever tasted, Real hickory smoked slow cooked, You could not go by the place without salivating like Pavlov’s dog.

    Just like Brunswick stew, you cannot open a can or add seasoning and have it taste the same. It is the cook what makes the taste. Just like Mrs. Anthony’s pies. An apple pie is just a pie unless it is touched by an artist.

    My mom always made the best potato salad ever eaten. It took my wife 10 years to equal it despite the number of attempts to follow my mom’s recipe to the letter. Seems there was always something my mom forgot to tell her about, like making her own mayonnaise and the recipe for that too.


  119. 119 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Words to live by……. A very successful man when ask the secret to his success by a reported during a press conference, replied:

    “There are two things that are essential to being a success in business, the first is never tell anyone else all your secrets, next question.”


  120. 120 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    There is a problem with having a zero tolerance policy. Many of the substances that are on the “no-no” list are manufactured by companies that also manufacture vitamins and other products that are not illegal and, in fact, are manufactured by the same machinery. A player who is taking legal supplements can fail a drug test because residue from the bad supplements taints the legal ones. Is it fair to ban a player in this instance? I personally don’t think it is. Where do you draw the line? How do you know when a guy knowingly cheated and when he unknowingly cheated?


  121. 121 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Gil, regarding your mother, your wife, and the potato salad recipe….

    Do you think your mother might have done that on purpose (even subconsciously)?


  122. 122 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Salty, you’re right about Bessinger’s onion rings. They are absolutely huge and delicious! Gonna have to go get me some soon!


  123. 123 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    A player who is taking legal supplements can fail a drug test because residue from the bad supplements taints the legal ones. Is it fair to ban a player in this instance?

    Klobber, you are right about your concern and no, it wouldn’t be fair to ban a player for something like that. Look, my suggested plan has many technical, testing difficulties, but the core idea is that testing and process needs to take those scenarios into account. Players would be required to state everything they were taking…from supplements to medicines. Yes, I also know that sounds like big brother…but after a decade of no brother or parent, the pendulum may need to swing a bit far to the other side to compensate and fix the system AND the culture.

    Anyway, those that seek to get ahead of the technical testing curve to enhance their performance will either be caught now or later. If they submit all intake, they are under advisement of the “testing organization” and deemed above board and above future reproach.

    Easier said than done, yes…but could be done if commitment is there (hich I doubt). Anyway, that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.


  124. 124 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    It’s way late (like me) and everyone is probably sick of everything related to Christmas, but as I try to catch up on weeks of emails I came across this. There is no way I’ll save it a whole year so here ’tis. Thought you might get a chuckle:


    1. Schizophrenia — Do You Hear What I Hear?

    2. Multiple Personality Disorder — We Three Kings Disoriented Are

    3. Dementia — I Think I’ll be Home for Christmas

    4. Narcissistic — Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me

    5. Manic — Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Buses and Trucks and Trees and…

    6. Paranoid — Santa Claus is Coming to Town…to Get Me

    7. Borderline Personality Disorder — Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire

    8. Personality Disorder — You Better Watch Out, I’m Gonna Cry, I’m Gonna Pout, Maybe I’ll Tell You Why…

    9. Attention Deficit Disorder — Silent night, Holy oooh look at the Froggy – can I have a chocolate, why is France so far away?

    10. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder — – Jingle Bells,! Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle,Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells …


  125. 125 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    “A player who is taking legal supplements can fail a drug test because residue from the bad supplements taints the legal ones. Is it fair to ban a player in this instance?”

    That sounds like the Rafael Palmeiro defense….. He thought he was getting a B-12 shot from his old pal Tajida. I guess he didn’t realize he should never share a syringe….


  126. 126 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Chris, there was no subconscious about it. That was a down right on purpose omission by my Mom…. She just maintained plausible deniability….


  127. 127 CL January 5, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Just thought of something:

    Years back, all the players slapped each other on the backside.

    In more recent years, it’s been “high-fives”, chest bumps, etc.

    Now I know why: their rears were sore from injections!


    SG, that was a funny list!


  128. 128 nacly January 5, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Sore from injections…plausible. So, anyone notice if Clemens has still been taking slaps on the rear, thus the lidocaine ‘pokes’? Think about it…high fives could hurt a pitchin’ hand!


  129. 129 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Gil, please don’t misunderstand me, I want the game to be as clean as possible. I wasn’t suggesting that Palmeiro wasn’t guilty; I think he was. I’m simply suggesting that this issue can’t be seen purely in black and white. Not every ballplayer who tests positive for PED’s knowingly did anything illegal or against baseball’s rules. I brought that idea up because I saw something on tv a while back regarding this very issue. They showed how vitamins and supplements are manufactured and how easily the first “batch” of the next product can be contaminated by the previous one. Can we condemn a player who fails a test under these circumstances? More importantly, how does one prove his innocence in a case like this? Unfortunately, there are far too many questions and not nearly enough answers.


  130. 130 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    journalist can always learn something while blogging with smart people. yeserday, lew said we should all drink more water, so, a few minutes ago jimmy smith drank the 64 ounces of water recommended by lew and now . . . journalist . . . has . . . to . . . go!


  131. 131 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    jimmy smith feels much better now. cannot be swayed on the life’s choices matter, though. we all make decisions, right and wrong. forgiveness is Divine but counting on forgiveness “just this once” may embolden some to misdirection. Is what is being advocated here that everyone is entitled to a mulligan, no matter the offense? knowingly using banned substances is not a mistake. it is a choice. mistakes are turning left when you meant to turn right. choices are taking the shot in the left cheek or the right cheek all the time knowing it is wrong to take the shot. and now, jelly . . . numbing jelly. imagine a biscuit filled with numbing strawberry jelly. offer one to young chip caray just before broadcast time. “dose cubbies ah my vewy favowits.”


  132. 132 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    knowingly using banned substances is not a mistake.

    Unknowingly using banned substances is not a mistake either.


  133. 133 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    and on the subject of barbecue (see, it really was ours first) – what are the two favorite sides of the bloggers? it will be interesting to know this information in case carolina lady caters our future get together at the ted.


  134. 134 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    CL, that is hilarious. I think you’re on to something there. Butt pats have gone the way of 8-track tapes.

    Klobber…I think I have the high-tech answer for chemical batch contamination.
    Kosher meds. No more unclean machinery between batches. Just think, Babe Ruth may have been tainted with sausage remnants when he thought he was getting a pure All American, all beef hot dog. How many home runs might he have hit with the pure stuff?


  135. 135 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    That’s an easy one jjs. Collards and cole slaw.


  136. 136 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    well, chrisklob, journalist thinks the chance of ingesting enough residue to cause a bad evaluation is very small – but jimmy smith does not advocate burning that athlete at the stake. are we to look the other way with the cheaters because someone may have ingested some residue? or perhaps was having his buttocks rubbed with yeast in the clubhouse and gave a false positive? no, cheating is cheating. mike vick didn’t know anything about dog fighting and look what happened when the residue settled! this is like getting a single french frie in an order of onion rings. carolina lady, what is the correct spelling for only one french frie? fry? not sure. like kleenex or xerox. or could be residue. one last thought: these athletes make lots of money and have access to the best available health care. why are they ingesting substances obtained from clubhouse boys? and what is in that sock? oh, the humanity! journalist must . . . go . . . again. too much residue from that huge glass of water!


  137. 137 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    That has to be some pretty sloppy Q.C. to have tainted drugs due to poor clean up. It would mean that not only did the technician not do their job but the batch was not tested per procedure. My wife worked for a major pharmaceutical company for several years making some very well know drugs. Q.C. was extraordinary because of the liability for any contaminated product.

    I am not saying it is impossible but likely would not hold water as far a challenge by an employee saying a legal substance was contaminated.

    True story….. There was a case in Virginia in which an attorney for an individual was successful in having the evidence against his client who was charged with D.U.I. thrown out because the site from which blood was drawn was prepped with an alcohol pad prior to a blood sample being drawn. This defense was used for some time until the state brought forth an expert witness to prove that because ethyl alcohol and grain alcohol are chemically different, the blood samples were not contaminated and therefore admissible.

    A lot of things that go on are done by bluff and being dependent upon ignorance on the other party’s part of facts. You have no idea how many times I have bluffed my way through an employee discharge case and won because the other side was not as prepared as they should have been.


  138. 138 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    chrisklob, this may be hard to imagine but many bbq places in atlanta do not serve collard greens. selections are sometimes limited due to the yankee influence. some places even have sodas on the menu. best to avoid these places.


  139. 139 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Interesting article that appeared on a sports supplement blog:


    And this one is from usatoday.com and is even more telling:



  140. 140 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    NO COLLARDS?!!??! Oh the humanity!

    And soda? I thought ALL carbonated soft drinks were called “Coke”!


  141. 141 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Sides with barbecue? Has to be cole slaw and french fries… If you are going to clog your arteries, you may as well go whole hog. 🙂

    And the butt pats.. Never understood that one, you sure can’t get away with that at the office…. And what of the mixed bowling league? Could a butt pat get you charged with sexual harassment? Can only butt pat persons of the same sex? A little odd too.

    Could the excuse, “Just checking for signs of illegal performance enhancement” be used as an excuse?

    I always worked in a zero tolerance environment. Never allow to pat someone on the rear. Of course I also worked for some folks who could not find their own rear with both hands…..


  142. 142 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    Sides with BBQ? mustard ‘tater salad, collard greens, white bread for sauce-soppin’ and a nice, cold Heineken.


  143. 143 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    yes, and lew was saying soda just yesterday. once, jimmy smith was at a krispy kreme establishment and jimmy smith ordered one half dozen krispy kremes and one half dozen chocolate covered krispy kremes. the krispy kreme lady carefully selected the krispy kremes (hot sign was on) and placed them in a krispy kreme box. later, when jimmy smith had arrived home and had poured a 12-ounce glass of ice cold milk, jimmy smith opened the box and retrieved a krispy kreme donought that had a small amount of chocolate residue. journalist looked at this chocolate residue on an otherwise perfect krispy kreme doughtnut and jimmy smith ate that donought! that’s right, ate that doughnut! residue and all. now, was that donought tainted? was that donought a throw-away? certainly not, that doughnut was carelessly packaged – not enough wax paper between doughnuts. jimmy smith tells this story to make a point. but journalist has had too much water to drink and must . . . leave . . . for . . . now.

    journalist must . . . go . . . again!


  144. 144 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    Butt pats while bowling? That could be dangerous. Be sure to remove the bowling ball from the hand first. Otherwise, bruised buttocks and funny looks.


  145. 145 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Does Jimmy Smith have a water bottle with a hidden compartment like Vick? Leaving often to snack? Munchies maybe? Hmmm…


  146. 146 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    perhaps all the water is making jimmy smith’s fingers float over the keyboard tonight. journalist is having some trouble with doughnut and donought and did not even try donut. anyway, brunswick stew has not been mentioned, baked beans, macaroni and cheese, or corn on the cob. heineken is not a side. nor is bud light. banana pudding is served in many fine bbq establishments. and butt pats is not a topic for discussion while food is being discussed. and imagine such a subject being brought up by carolina lady!


  147. 147 lew614 January 5, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Yes-Bruised butts can well result in the need for B12 and lidocaine injections. It could well lead to a 50 game suspension-and the awareness that everyone thinks your full of……..And being called a numbass.


  148. 148 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    lew, that seems like an awful lot of water . . .


  149. 149 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Yes… a gallon a day will keep the kidneys in play. 🙂 Also can create a strange sloshing sound when racing to the toilet. This however, should not be confused with being sloshed.

    Brunswick stew need not be a side dish. Also depends if barbecue is pulled, chopped or sliced. Of course one could just barbecue a Boston butt.


  150. 150 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    And this from the Washington Times…. Proof that ball players and guns don’t mix.



  151. 151 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    I didn’t know Dick Cheney was hunting in Mexico last month!


  152. 152 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    I didn’t know Ayala was a lawyer…


  153. 153 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Just “winged” him


  154. 154 lew614 January 5, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Esteemed Journalist-Yes, almost a gallon a water a day is a lot and yes, I do travel to the facilities frequently. Hell. I’m an old man and it’s just part of the job description!!! If I drink less than 72 ounces a day, I get terrible muscle cramps in my legs from dehydration -caused by all the crap the doctor prescribes. I guess I’m lucky that I am not on medications with side effects (real, from commercials on tv) such as viral infections, tumors or spleenic rupture. Oh! The Humanity!! Whoever thought a ruptured spleen was an acceptable side effect?


  155. 155 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    WOW! I walked away from the game with the Redskins trailing 13-0. I come back in and the ‘Skins are up 14-13 and they’re threatening to score again!


  156. 156 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Okay folks, what will it be? Monkeys or Vultures???? No shortage of news today. And the Redskins are playing inspired football…. Still might lose. Bad to miss a chip shot FG that would have been huge.


  157. 158 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    I wonder if the police officer told him “your and idiot”.


  158. 161 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Jimmysmith, this story is for you…. Your being an avid birder and all.

    What is not told in this story is the birds have indeed moved… To an upscaled neighborhood nearby. In addition, these birds are no longer intimidated by noise makers and such. They much prefer their new million dollar digs to being down by the docks.



  159. 162 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Also known as a Charleston Eagle…. Chris, have you seen any of these guys?



  160. 163 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Must be named for Charleston, West Virginia. A bird of such a nature would offend the well-defined senses of any Charlestonian. 😉


  161. 164 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Hey… I’m just the messenger… 🙂


  162. 165 lew614 January 5, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    I tend to believe Brendan Donnelly, too. He certainly has peter Gammons convinced, as well. One thing about the list that Mitchell released that struck me was if all of those players took steroids, how few of them it even helped.


  163. 166 Chop Seal January 5, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    jimmy Smith drank to much watter. Now he is grumpey. He said he can help call the burds though. I like barbecue fish and shrimps with a side of hushpuppeys. Chop Seal, Beet Writer for Braves and Stuff blog.


  164. 167 CL January 5, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Lew, I noticed that many of the checks written were one-time checks for small amounts – $200, $400 – whereas others were repeat buyers between $2400 – $3500. It is the latter group that needs the focus. Obviously the others either considered it once or tried it once and got away from it.

    As Santangelo said, he used HGH to heal from 2 injuries. It amounted to a total of 4 weeks out of an otherwise clean 15 year career. He admitted to it, said it was wrong, said he’d made his bed by those two decisions and now he had to lie in it. Never took steroids, just HGH.


  165. 168 Chop Seal January 5, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    I am wurried about Jimmy Smith, he has begun to whittle. I do not know what he is whitteling but he is using his good nife.


  166. 169 CL January 5, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    What kind of wood?


  167. 171 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    Carolina Lady, What folks should remember in all this is the employer has a much greater latitude when dealing with employees who violate company policy. They cannot put them in jail. They can only affect the condition of employment, The standard of beyond a reasonable doubt really only applies to individuals who risk the loss of personal freedom.

    The only thing the union has going for them right now in protecting players from suspensions and fines is to look at past practice. This is likely why Mitchel recommended that no action be taken for past infractions but to establish what will be the accepted standard going forward.

    The Hall of Fame thingee is a whole different issue.


  168. 172 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Oh mercy Seal….. call the paramedics now before it is too late. One slip and jimmy could become all thumbs.


  169. 173 CL January 5, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Very good, Baby Seal. Most informative answer. You have this beet writer stuff down pat!


  170. 174 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Mr. Seal, are you sure that was water jimmy was drinking and not fire water?


  171. 175 CL January 5, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    When random drug testing began in the airline industry, people stopped taking vitamins, any supplements, OTC meds such as Sinutab, etc. Nothing was taken without a doctor’s note stating exactly what was being taken and was on file with the company. One positive test and the employee was gone with no recourse, whether that employee actually used something illegal or not. False positives happened too frequently. Now THAT was harsh!

    It was even discovered that eating sesame seeds on a roll could show up as something else.


  172. 176 Chop Seal January 5, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Why would anybody wurry about sesame seeds ona roll? wouldn’t the speshul sauce show up furst? Jimmy smith may be whittelingg Howdy Doody not sure. still drinkiing lots of watter. starting not to look like Howdy Doody anymore.


  173. 177 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Yes, it is why we worked so hard to make sure that did not happen. Having double blind samples, review of the labs used etc. We also establish rehab programs. It was really tough to get fired for using drugs but some folks managed anyway.


  174. 178 journalist jimmy smith January 5, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    oh, the humanity! jimmy smith just whittled howdy doody! dead doody. no more ears. chin gone. all that water, too much water.


  175. 179 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    Yep, jimmy’s been in chrisklob’s avatar!


  176. 180 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    A wall plaque to hang in Klobber’s Saloon & Grill

    One afternoon at Cheers, Cliff Clavin was explaining the Buffalo Theory to his buddy Norm. Here’s how it went:

    “Well ya see, Norm, it’s like this… A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

    In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That’s why you always feel smarter after a few beers.”


  177. 181 CL January 5, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    OH, mercy. Littlejohn (gray tabby) is sitting here eating my peanut butter cracker!

    SG, that’s funny!


  178. 182 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Funniest thing was when they brought in the drug sniffing dogs. The police kept dragging this one dog over to an employee’s car trying to get the dog to “Alert” on the car. After the third try the dog finally took the hint and barked. With that taken as probable cause, the employee was called to the parking lot and asked to unlock his car. After a very extensive search three marijuana seeds were found in an ashtray…. Duh! After a quick consultation, the company realize there is a limit to how necessary the dog and pony show was. In reality, they were only after people who missed time from work. The guy they nailed was one of their prized pigs. They had gotten confused as to which car they wanted the dog to hit on. 😳


  179. 183 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    That’s awesome SG. Maybe jimmy can carve it for us!


  180. 184 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    Subject: Political Correctness

    The following is the 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

    This year’s term: “Political Correctness”

    “Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”


  181. 185 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    That’s some story Gil. What happened to the guy?


  182. 186 CL January 5, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    AMEN, SG! Ain’t it the truth!! 😆


  183. 187 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    They patted him on the butt and sent him back to work. 🙂

    The mere fact that MJ seeds were present in his car did not mean they were his or that he was a user. He was not present when it was found and the union reps would have testified there was really no probable cause since the dog had to be coerced to actually hit on the car. It was a learning experience for a lot of folks.


  184. 188 chrisklob January 5, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    That’s good to hear Gil. It’s not hard to imagine a scenario where he lost his job, his family and went to jail.


  185. 189 CL January 5, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Y’all have a good time. Time for me to turn in! 🙂


  186. 190 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Oh, it set a precedent that allowed the union to successfully protect the jobs of some guys that really were users. Hey, was not my job to judge.. 🙂 Not saying guys didn’t lose their jobs for stupid stuff. Had one case where a particular supervisor had it in for a particular employee. She finally had caught him doing something for which she thought she could fire him for.

    I got a call to represent him. She was so sure she had him dead to rights for falsification of records. She had all the evidence laid out. She had been looking for a reason to get rid of this kid. Turned out, it was someone else who was guilty. That person was one of her favorites. That kid lost his job because she had raised such a stink over the incident trying to get the guy she didn’t like fired and could not back track.

    Lesson learned was be careful what you ask for, you might get it.


  187. 191 savannahguy January 5, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Gil, maybe law enforcement adopted butt patting when the MLB abandoned it. Could be a sure sign of, well, you know. Nevermind…’roids have been more than covered. MJ seeds? Did Air Jordan leave something in that car?

    G’nite CL.


  188. 192 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Well, they kept the seeds… 🙂


  189. 193 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Like I said, a lot of stuff is done on bluff. If they had tried to convict him of something, the judge would have laughed them out of court.


  190. 194 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    There is enough real crime out there not to tie up the courts with BS….


  191. 195 mrgil January 5, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    Okay, night all…


  192. 196 Bob, journalist January 6, 2008 at 1:27 am

    We just watched what I thought was a very good, inspirational movie … “We Are Marshall”. Methinks it’s worth your while … for those who haven’t yet so done.


  193. 197 morpheus45 January 6, 2008 at 2:37 am

    Hooody-hooo! Anyone still up? I’m drunk and listening to 80’s power ballads; resue me from wanting to come up with a chemical to eliminate the female race…:-)


  194. 198 Bob, journalist January 6, 2008 at 3:12 am

    Gil, “You have no idea how many times I have bluffed my way through an employee discharge case and won because the other side was not as prepared as they should have been” reinforces the notion that it should be incumbent upon us to always be “Boy Scout” ready.

    As a technical problem solver, I was fortunate in that my proposed solutions, while frequently complex, had to be rigoriously prepared and logically defendable … for obvious reasons, including the fact that most of the time they were subjected to close scrutiny before receiving approval … and my continued employment probably depended upon my so doing.

    I suppose it was a different ball game as the objective was to solve the problem rather than defend a flawed solution or gain personal or political advantage … if the proposed solution was found to be flawed and/or not acceptable, it was abandoned or modified as deemed appropriate … it would have been unthinkable and methinks considered professional misconduct to have proposed or defended something known or suspected to flawed without full disclosure of the expected ramifications.

    It was also considered prudent and proper that same rigor be expended in the scrutiny given to the efforts of others.

    Still, that environment was not free from politics, private agendas and injustice … the “rules” were not always followed by everyone and we lost some battles that most certainly should have been won … and considerable satisfaction was derived from exposing the flawed proposals of those we opposed.


  195. 199 nacly January 6, 2008 at 5:38 am

    You ever look at the clock and are not sure if you’re having a late night, or a very early start to the day? That’s me this AM. Put my son on his flight back to Eugene, Oregon last night, connecting in Vegas. He’s stuck there…flight left without him…and apparently 2/3’s of the rest of the passengers. FAA rules, flight was closed out…kids standing at the gate looking at the plane…can’t be re-opened. ‘Smart’ is getting dumber by the day!

    Thirty tired and irritable college students working on no sleep is not a pretty site…some customer service reps have their hands full with angry Ducks!


  196. 200 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 8:05 am

    Good morning all, An old sage once told me that the best way to rid an organization of a flawed policy was to follow it to the letter. Apply it equally to everyone without quarter. To fail to follow policy was dereliction of duty and if ever put in a situation by which the legality of one’s actions was held into account, the first questioned ask was “did you follow written procedures”.

    If enough people are adversely affected, the powers that be will always amend the procedure. A corollary to that could be, “You just can’t teach stupid, that is an inborn trait.”

    Salty, your son’s woes bring to mind the above. It is why Europe has imposed a passenger “Bill of Rights”. Often solutions to problems which do not exist. The best these students can hope for is to flood the folks who make the rules with letters of protest and it is always easier to start at the top and work backwards.

    Bob, J. I will never forget my first case involving the company’s clear violation of the contract. I can remember saying “never let me catch you doing that again”… They took it to heart, they were much more careful after that not to let me catch them. 🙂

    I learned to never make an idle threat. I just did what I had to do without warning and usually on a Friday afternoon. Believe it or not, things eventually worked out pretty smoothly, achieving a content work force is beneficial a plus, now that did not mean the crew had to run the boat, just like Driving the Bridge” is the best way to run the ship aground.


  197. 201 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 8:13 am

    Grinch, one must take the good with the bad and when the bad ones are good tis often better than the good ones being bad. That said, contact Bergain about the robots. 🙂


  198. 202 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Quack Attack-Go Ducks, Sic Em-quack, quack, quack. Just doesn’t work for water fowl like it does for Dawgs, now does it? Salty-let’s hope the boy gets where he’s going-now and in the future. A couple of small detours along the way shouldn’t be too bad. They’re still kids and don’t have arthritis yet. They’ll be fine. The airlines? Maybe not so much!!!

    I’ve always been exceedingly happy to be self employed and never felt the need to drug test myself. May have found the levels to be way too low and might have overcompensated.


  199. 203 nacly January 6, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Funny, Lew! Quack doesn’t translate, you’re right!

    Standing in a line of 30 or more folks, I gave him the airline customer (no) service number. Called, and got no where. Called back a bit later, connecting with a different person…someone motivated. The guy actually told Eric he would work a solution and call him back…twenty minutes later, re-routed on a different airline (that was once ready when we were) to Salt Lake and into the last seat to Eugene. Thus, the original airline has an employee who takes his service role to heart, thereby salvaging some credibility.

    As I told my son, this will happen again. Learn the tricks (always have a cell phone!), and be persistent…not rude, but stubbornly persistent. Like you, Lew! 🙂


  200. 204 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 10:24 am

    A friend among us…

    …is still fast asleep, dreaming of Amazon women chasing him around the house. Are they chasing him to love him or just to catch him, hold him down and give him a gang noogie? How will it unfold?

    After the dream is over, he will wake up with a very bad hangover and 80’s power ballads banging on the inside of his skull trying to escape. Once his eyes open, he sees nothing but darkness. Could he have gone blind? Was that moonshine last night? No. Turns out he just passed out with a copy of Chop Talk covering his face.

    Next, he looks down at the foot of his bed and sees…big yellow shoes. Oh, Mercy…forgot to remove those. Must have passed out. No wonder he couldn’t outrun that wild mob of women. What’s that all over the floor? Laundry detergent? Must have been that “chemical” he was tossing around trying to eliminate his feisty female pursuers.

    What should he do when he gets out of bed? Here’s my advice: Take 2 aspirin, (no Tylenol…bad for liver), mix 3 raw eggs in orange juice and slug it down, put on some nice soft music and do 200 pushups. Gets the blood flowing to all body parts. Jumping jacks are not advised, as they might hurt the head.

    After those things are done, make a pot of strong coffee. That should provide the necessary antidote. Throughout the day, drink lots of water (works for Lew and Jimmy). Next, get the vacuum cleaner out and get up all of that laundry detergent. Gets sticky if it stays on the floor and furniture too long.

    When you’re feeling like your old self, check into the Braves & Stuff blog to tell us how the dream ended. Curious minds may want to know. Finally, as a sure-fire preventative measure to avoid a repeat of last night, stay right there at your computer and begin the process of the pairing off ceremony. Make beautiful music my friend. Rock on.

    Oh, but don’t show up on the first date with the big yellow shoes. If this plan doesn’t work you can always fall back on Gil’s advice to contact Berigan about the robot. Could even be programmed to like power ballads and yellow shoes?

    There. All is well in Braves & Stuffville. But wait…now we have an artist that is admitting to PED’s? Career drug test avoidance? What next, an asterisk in the upper right hand corner of all Wurlitzers? A brush with HGH? Fast art?


  201. 205 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Yes Salty, making threats often does no good, that only leads to stiffer resistance. Advise your son to write the letters but include the atta boy for the one guy who really did his job.

    Yes Lew, being self employed has its perks but man. you better really like the boss…. 🙂


  202. 206 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 10:32 am

    SG, I have a sneaking suspicion that it wasn’t a copy of Chop Talk covering his face!


  203. 207 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Gil-After almost 57 years, I’ve at least learned to tolerate the Old SOB.


  204. 208 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Must I now sign artwork Hartman 2008*


  205. 209 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Newsday.com is reporting that former bff’s (that’s “best friends forever” if you don’t have a teenage girl living in your house) Roger Clemens and Brian McNamee had an “emotional” telephone conversation on Friday night.

    I’ll bet I screwed this link up


  206. 210 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Hey, it worked!


  207. 211 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Klobber, somehow I just knew there might be suspicion of another magazine there instead of Chop Talk. Only the Grinch knows and he ain’t talkin’.

    That was a good article on the Clemens/McNamee phone conversation. Would like to have been a fly on the wall during that exchange. Wonder if sleuth was there?

    Lew…no denials? Sure it wasn’t just B-12 or pain relief? Is this an admission?


  208. 212 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Fly said he was there. That little guy never misses a hot story. More later, when he files his report.


  209. 213 Bob, journalist January 6, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    An old sage once told me that the best way to rid an organization of a flawed policy was to follow it to the letter … was it not President Grant who said “I know of no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their strict execution.”


  210. 214 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    Lew, I tried being my own boss when I was younger but I found me to be an arrogant, incompetent know it all and quit…. Now that I am older, I have polished my people skills and likely could work for me now but who would want to hire a broken down old nag like myself?

    Chris, Thanks for the link, perhaps those two “Birds of a feather” could move with their kind at Dutch Gap….

    SG…. Beware of fly traps 🙂


  211. 215 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Bob, Now we know where that adage began. Props to you for your accurate knowledge of history. Of course it was not me he said it to. 🙂


  212. 216 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Gil, Mr. Fly is too much a sleuth to fall for traps or sticky paper. After sitting in on the phone conversation, he escaped from the Clemens home unscathed. Roger did throw a piece of a broken bat at him as he was leaving, ala Piazza…but Fly dodged it. Roger then apologized and said that he didn’t know what got into him.

    Fly forgave Mr. Clemens and went on his way. Fly then hopped a plane to NY to hang with Chris Wallace for about 60 minutes and is now heading home. Hope he didn’t hop that plane Salty’s boy was on. Fly hates waiting around in terminals. Too many humans in one place is annoying to flies. That, and the food is not all that good either.


  213. 217 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    SG-No. I had Lidocaine used to numb my eye (they swabbed it on) and then they injected steroids directly into the while of my eye (intra vitriol) to reduce edema in the macular region of my retina. No parsing, whatsoever. That is exactly what happened. I take a B12 supplement and could get B12 injections from the doctor just by asking. No numbass on me, though, but damn glad my eye was numb when they did the five injections.


  214. 218 nacly January 6, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Roger then apologized and said that he didn’t know what got into him.
    Steroid outburst!


  215. 219 Chop Seal January 6, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Jimmy Smith is about to drink 64-ounces of water again. I am going nex t door for ahwhile.


  216. 220 journalist jimmy smith January 6, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    jimmy smith remembers the time a new restaurant was to open downtown and the owners wanted to make sure there was no drug use by the employees there. a small amount of work remained to be done to the restaurant’s interior and, finally, selection had to be made of bar stools and chairs. at the same time, the insurance company was coming in to administer drug tests. all was going along smoothly until the unfortunate phone call, “i’ll be there in 30 minutes and i’ll want to go over stool samples when i get there. please have everyone ready.” oh, the humanity!

    stool samples, a blog first.


  217. 221 journalist jimmy smith January 6, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    jimmy smith would like to apologize to carolina lady for the unfortunate post about the bar stools. jimmy smith thinks it is all this water jimmy smith is drinking that is making jimmy smith post like lew.


  218. 222 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Bob, Journalist talked with Ulysses S. Grant? I had no idea the esteemed journalist went back that far. Could Bob be over 130 years old? Oh, the longevity!

    Grant was a smart man and had some quotable quotes, but was not a good man or President. Too bad Bob couldn’t have talked with Ulysses a little longer. Bob surely could have made a difference during reconstruction and such.


  219. 223 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    ……a new restaurant was to open downtown and the owners wanted to make sure there was no drug use by the employees there….

    Good luck with that one. You’d have better luck finding a clean MLB team than a restaurant with no drug use.


  220. 224 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Trivia Question: What are you if you drink lots of water like Journalist Jimmy Smith?

    Answer: European.


  221. 225 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    70 degrees and sunny. More yardwork now…


  222. 226 morpheus45 January 6, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Ohhhh….my head. Someone please turn the “Night Ranger” off the casette deck. SG, how many days do I have to do the 200 pushups?

    Lew, you’re not supposed to eat the parsing; it’s just a garnish.


  223. 227 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    I would never eat the parsing. I do not eat spices sung about by Simon and Garfunkle. No parsing, sage, rosemary or Thyme.


  224. 228 journalist jimmy smith January 6, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    great blog, carolina lady! good stuff as always. carolina lady really steps up when carolina lady needs to step up. thanks for carolina lady’s thoughts on all matters. journalist is pretty sure journalist feels the very same way on everything. oh, the humanity! wrong blog.

    now, carolina lady, what is all this talk of butt pats? did you start this discussion? and what is this matter of b-12 viitamins? jimmy smith has not been jimmy smith’s self for a couple days with the ingestion of all this water. soon, jimmy smith will become accustomed to drinking 64-ounces of water at a time and everything will be okay. now, jimmy smith . . . must . . . go.


  225. 229 CL January 6, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    jimmy, you’re a hoot! 😆


  226. 230 williamwallace January 6, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Roger Clemens on Youtube: I did not have injection relations with that woman, Ms. McNamee

    Tonight on 60 Minutes: I did have a relationship with Miss McNamee that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. I misled people, including even my wife Andy. I deeply regret that.

    Tomorrow’s press conference: The last 10 years of my career has been a vast conspiracy led by my right wing …….. and a boatload of roids


  227. 231 CL January 6, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Most interesting and informative article!

    McNamee once lived in Clemen’s pool house on his estate?


  228. 232 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Roger Clemens is to Brian McNamee as O.J. is to Kato Kalin?


  229. 233 CL January 6, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Lots of interesting things in there, huh?


  230. 234 berigan2electricboogaloo January 6, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Wow, too many posts to catch up with!!! 😦 slow down when I’m not here, ok???

    williamwallace, liked your 7 pm post! 😛


  231. 235 journalist jimmy smith January 6, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    carolina lady, should be, “your a hoot”. and now, baseball . . . living in the pool house? hmmm . . . and why not? can never tell when a butt rub might be needed. oh, the humanity! this whole thing is sordid. imagine roger clemens stretched out on a lounge chair by the pool when the need for a vitamin shot occurs. merely by calling to the pool house, famous ballplayer can obtain a butt numbing shot of lidocaine and a vitamin supplement, too. discrete. personal. and what of the issue of sunburn to the extremeties? this thought is not pretty but could explain the butt numbing. and now, pie . . . on second thought pie talk is not appropriate considering the preceding subject matter. instead of pie, jimmy smith will talk toes. would lidocaine work to numb the toes of a sore-toed 3rd baseman and keep that 3rd baseman in the lineup? and it is a slow blog day and the bravesandstuff blog may be in jeopardy of falling off hk’s graph. what is going on elsewhere? you da man.


  232. 236 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Great article CL. Maybe McNamee is “injecting” a little personal umbrage?

    Klobber, could be a different Kato. Inspector Clouseau’s ambushing, karate chopping house boy. Personal trainer of sorts.


  233. 237 CL January 6, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Has anybody heard from jasoninmaine, Hillbilly or JoeBrave? They are now officially AWOL.


  234. 238 lew614 January 6, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Ma’am-I heard from Jason yesterday. They got snowed in, too.


  235. 239 CL January 6, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Thanks, Lew! Tell him we miss him and hope all is well there. (Please?) 🙂


  236. 240 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    My better half and I were discussing the whole steroid issue and her comment was, “Get over it, they were all doing something, they are just baseball players . It is in the past, what difference does it really make now?”

    Okay, kind of puts thing in perspective for me. We have no control over who will be voted into the Hall Of Fame, at this point, that is the only question to be finally answered. We the fans will have zero impact.

    As for Roger Roidbert…. His best bet is to just shut up…..

    Now question…. If you added parsing to water, could you make a soup? I realize this is a B-B-Q, pie and toe blog but this time of year could be good time for soup. 🙂


  237. 241 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Strange World: Edition 1

    Tonight on 60 minutes, President Pervez Musharraf is interviewed. The nuclear-armed Pakistan is currently in a declared state of emergency and right smack in the middle of a boiling cauldron in the middle east.

    But he’s just the opening act for the really big, world changing story:
    A baseball pitcher accused of taking steroids shots in the butt speaks out.

    What’s funnier…we’re waiting on the Clemens story. Strange world we live in. Go figger.


  238. 242 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    CL… Is there a radio station in the Wilmington area that carries the Braves games during the summer? I always miss the Braves games during my summer vacation.


  239. 243 CL January 6, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    ‘Fraid not, Gil. TBS, Fox, ESPN – that’s about it for TV. MLB decided that this part of the south would be Orioles fans so that’s the only “team” coverage available now. Nothing on radio, unless maybe it can be found on shortwave; don’t know ’bout that.

    I really hate that the Braves games will not be broadcast as they were because so MANY elderly people really looked forward to seeing them. At home and in nursing homes. In many cases, a Braves game was ALL they had to look forward to.


  240. 244 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Gil, here’s a list of Braves radio affiliates. Nothing IN Wilmington, but might be something near there, in a city I don’t recognize.



  241. 245 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Grinch…start with 50 pushups, increase by 10 every other day until you reach 200. Then do 200 every day until April. No HGH. No tequila. No pain no gain.

    Now get started.


  242. 246 CL January 6, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    SG, April of what year?


  243. 247 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    So what do y’all think about the Clemens interview? Seemed pretty chopped up in places to me. Didn’t really flow well.

    For me, I think he’s guilty as sin.


  244. 248 CL January 6, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    I didn’t get to see it (Mother was watching something) so you’ll have to tell me about it.


  245. 249 journalist jimmy smith January 6, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    journalist is sure some of those in nursing homes identify with the braves old timer pitchers. probably went to school with some of them. now, no follow up on the sick lion and sick tiger at the zoo. best wishes go out to both. all started with aaron giraffe and the bad toe. remember, whether man or giraffe, toes are not to be trifled with. and now, the subject of roger clemens . . . soon to be disregarded by all as a clown. sad.

    and this from chino cadahia regarding javy lopez: “He’s come a long way,” Cadahia said. “He looks good back there with his footwork and everything.” javy has been working out with chino – didn’t know chino worked out.

    and lew is working on the bobby cox drawing and should be ready at any time and jimmy smith is wondering about the nostrils on this portrait . . .


  246. 250 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    CL, sorry you didn’t see it. Here’s the link to watch it:



  247. 251 CL January 6, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Many thanks, Chris! I’m on my way now!


  248. 252 CL January 6, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Having watched it, I’d say it was heavily edited. I found his “eye” reaction interesting. I noticed that he would answer a question then instantly look away. The mouth was saying one thing, the eyes something else.

    He’s clearly angry, but angry about what exactly? At being found out? Being betrayed by someone he had trusted? Or being falsely accused?


  249. 253 CL January 6, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    Another thought: why wasn’t he asked about Lidocaine?? That one just can’t be explained away.


  250. 254 CL January 6, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    I’m turning in for the evening. Chris’ blog lead will debut in the morning! 🙂


  251. 255 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Oh great. No sleep for me tonight!


  252. 256 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    Clemens said he would submit to a lie detector….. There is a reason a lie detector is not admissible in court….. Put his money where his mouth is and swear under oath in court so he can be held accountable for perjury.


  253. 257 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Hello, friends! Back home now. Sorry I didn’t check in as promised but Mom’s laptop tried to melt down. It’s a bad sign when the computer smells like burning plastic.

    We had a nice dusting of snow the evening of New Years’ Day. The swirling wind made it look exactly like being in a snowglobe. It stuck around since the highs were below freezing for 3 days ( I know Lew is not impressed but that’s like real winter for this Florida girl).

    Grinch, sounds like a rough weekend. Do you need cake, cookies, fudge, etc. to recover? Should’ve called in a request while I was in closer proximity.


  254. 258 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    flbravesgirl I think Grinch really needed oxygen and a stomach pump. 🙂


  255. 259 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    I didn’t have either of those with me, Gil. How about some aspirin & a hug? Maybe some positive attention from a female would help counteract whatever went wrong.


  256. 260 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    Grinch said that you could send fudge, cookies and cake to me and I’ll see to it that he gets them.


  257. 261 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    I haven’t had good luck with that type of delivery system, Chris.


  258. 262 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Don’t forget…Roger Clemens is not a TV personality. He’s not used to these kinds of interviews. He was looking down…at Mike Wallace’s notes. That’s understandable with an interview of this type. He was nervous. Understandable. He was angry. Understandable. He was awkward. Understandable. He was out of his element. Understandable.

    Just a reminder to fair minded people: He shouldn’t be judged guilty because he lacked interview savvy. He’s not a politician. He shouldn’t be presumed guilty before he has a chance of a hearing and an investigation. He obviously has a long row to hoe here. A lie detector test would be helpful.

    Where is the PROOF? Does McNamee have credibility? Does McNamee have a motive to lie or some ulterior motive? Is he a weasel? Is there an agenda behind the scenes that we don’t know about? Are we living in a world where you are now assumed guilty before a trail, much less an investigation? How about the Tawana Brawley accusations? DA and Duke soccer players? On and on…all looked guilty before the FACTS came out.

    C’mon folks…We have no idea whether Clemens is guilty or innocent. We can look at political debates and tell who won by who looked Presidential, relaxed, poised, articulate and believable. We can look at American Idol and tell who’s good and bad. We can see a film and become immersed in the story (good acting) or notice the acting (bad acting).

    We can’t look at one interview of an athlete and tell if is guilty. Some people don’t interview well. I’d say that 98% of all non actor, non politician, non performers would have looked guilty as hell in that circumstance.Granted, circumstantial evidence looks bad.

    Can you imagine the difficulty and expense of proving yourself innocent? Can you imagine the fear in going forward, against your legal advice and the advice of the players Union? Going forward into such a draining, negative scenario that makes you physically ill just contemplating? Going forward in the complex maze that takes so much time, money, energy and time away from home and family? Ugliness is hard to wade into, innocent or not.

    Am I giving too much benefit of doubt here? Is that wrong? Am I being a defender of our constitutional rights? Am I being a hopeless romantic or just wanting such a sports legend to be innocent? Say it ain’t so…


  259. 263 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Not to worry flbravesgirl. I’ll ensure prompt delivery (minus delivery costs, of course).


  260. 264 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:14 pm

    flbravesgirl, Savannah is a little closer for you. Send them here and I’ll make sure Chris gets his shar…uh, the delivery.


  261. 265 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    This conversation is beginning to sound familiar to me. Deja vu, anyone?


  262. 266 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    Is it just me, or is everyone here (minus Gil and CL and Lew) really dreading Monday morning?


  263. 267 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Monday? Can’t trust that day.


  264. 268 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    I’m ashamed of you two. Here I am trying to help poor Grinch & you’re trying to help yourselves to the sweets intended to raise his spirits. tsk, tsk.


  265. 269 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Chris, it didn’t take but one person to mess it up for everyone…. I ‘m not pointing fingers but when one admits to cake crumbs being evident upon a certain sidekick’s whiskers…. Let’s just say, I don’t believe that a certain someone could survive a grilling by 60 Minutes. Mouth may being saying one thing while eyes tell a different story.

    flbravesgirl… My Mom always said you could tame just about anything if you fed it enough. I think it might be true for both man and beast. 🙂


  266. 270 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    Klobber, if we can work this delivery thing out on the package from Florida, we can solve the issue before a certain journalist wakes up in the morning. All I need is an honest 20% of the baked goods for handling, repacking and drayage.

    You can have your 20% cut when the goods arrive in Charleston. You can then send to Grinch. He’ll be very satisfied with 60% of the bravesgirl treats. Besides, I have him on a workout program. 100% of the goodies box would not be good for the pushups or the program he’s on.

    Now, if journalist finds out he will try to divert the shipment to his clearing house, Chop Seal will get his flippers on the goods and Grinch will only receive crumbs…if that much. Maybe just a greasy box with whiskers inside.

    What say?


  267. 271 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    OK, OK…Gil is onto the deal. He is savvy to the delivery. After you get the shipment from me, you can take your cut and forward to Mechanicsville. Gil can lighten the box by 20% and forward to Grinch. Grinch will be very pleased with 40% of the original order. Think?


  268. 272 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Wouldn’t Savannah & Charleston be a tad out of the way for a delivery from Tampa Bay area to Atlanta?


  269. 273 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    flbravesgirl…we are simply trying to look out for Grinch. Quality control and portion control. That’s all. Besides, Grinch is trying to limit his sweets. Look at it this way…we are just trying to help out.


  270. 274 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    True fact… I worked every Monday for 10 years straight. Pretty amazing feat when one works rotating shifts and days off change each week. When finally forced to take a Monday off, I never wanted to work another one.

    Jumped the shark on that one…..

    A year later, always off…. Now important stuff. I do not know if you folks like fruitcake, some do , some don’t but I am going to pass along a link to a little outfit in Sanford NC that makes absolutely the best fruitcake I have ever tasted.

    A friend of my Mom’s sent her one last year for Christmas and now I order them too.



  271. 275 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    SG, I’m in. Like Flynn.

    flbravesgirl, I assure you that our intentions are pure. It is not unreasonable to make certain “profits” for services rendered.

    Gil, I’m sure some legal expert will look at the video and have plenty to say about his body language and what it says about what happened.

    I hope and pray that he didn’t do anything illegal or against baseball rules. He’s been the best pitcher of this generation. It would be a shame to know that he achieved that by cheating.


  272. 276 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Out of the way????

    Savannah is on a multi-modal corridor. We have Home Depot, Target and other big box distribution centers here. Turn key shipping and delivery. Import and export. Storage, drayage, packaging, shipping, brownies, pies, cakes and such.

    No problem. We have a direct to Klobber to Gil to Grinch delivery system all worked out.


  273. 277 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    flbravesgirl, have you ever taken an airplane trip and had to make a connecting flight that seemed a little out of the way? Kind of the same thing here.


  274. 278 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    And Mechanicsville is more than a tad out of the way! Grinch would not be pleased with 40%, I’m sure.


  275. 279 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    Gil, fruitcake is sort of a family joke around here. Someone sent my in-laws a fruitcake about 15 years ago. We still have the same fruitcake and someone new gets it every year. Kind of a booby prize (can say?).


  276. 280 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    flbravesgirl, are you aware that Charleston is one of the largest container ports in the US? We have quite a distribution network set up here. From this port we can distribute goods to points all over the world, including Atlanta!


  277. 281 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    SG, if you are still using drays, you are well behind the times!


  278. 282 flbravesgirl January 6, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Chris, don’t laugh but… I’ve never been on a plane. Never traveled further away from home than Tennesee ’til a few years’ ago.


  279. 283 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    Good thing CL is going to flip the blog in the morning, might just slip that plan by a certain journalist….

    FLB… It is not so unusual, airlines do it all the time… 🙂 My last trip I had to fly from San Juan to Pittsburgh to Philadelphia to Newport News before getting home. Lends great credence to the old joke that you can’t get there from here… 🙂


  280. 284 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    flbravesgirl, don’t tell that to CL! You might have your membership revoked!

    (besides, it’s a huge hassle nowadays. You feel more like cattle than anything else.)


  281. 285 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    NOTE TO SELF…. Do not send Klobber a fruit cake… 🙂


  282. 286 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    No Gil, send one. I’ll have it forever! 🙂


  283. 287 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    Not if you tasted it…. Not your ordinary fruit cake….


  284. 288 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    Drays are behind the…oh, uh, that’s right. Just remembered…we have the latest technology that replaced drayage. Yea. Top of the line stuff. I could explain it but the details might get, well…boring. We have it. That. Yes, we have that…stuff.

    flbravesgirl, Did I tell you that we have a specialized dessert forwarding station? Yes, state of the art. In and out in a flash.


  285. 289 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    SG, you forgot to tell her that it’s refrigerated too!


  286. 290 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Gil, I LOVE fruitcake. Really. I’ll even eat Claxton fruitcake, and they aren’t even that good. Too much fruit, not enough walnuts and/or pecans.


  287. 291 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    Not only refrigerated…we ship on reefer trucks. That’s right…reefer trucks (can that be discussed on a public blog?)

    The drivers are a little laid back, but dude…they can drive far out.


  288. 292 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    FBG… Don’t let them fool you, send it here first. I will assure all will be distributed equally and equitably according to height.. 🙂 Only a small handling fee, uh… don’t forget to insure all goods just in case the delivery guy gets lost, yes… that’s it, a lost delivery guy….


  289. 293 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    NOTE TO SELF… Send Klobber’s fruit cake to savannahguy….


  290. 294 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Gil, that’s great. I’m 7’2″.

    SG, did you say reefer? Reefer Madness?


  291. 295 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    Gil, I’m telling you. Send me a fruitcake and that sucker will become a family heirloom!


  292. 296 mrgil January 6, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    Okay folks, I’m having too much fun here, will catch you folks tomorrow. Hopefully Chris’ post will be up.


  293. 297 savannahguy January 6, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    flbravesgirl…remind me to tell you a funny, true story about a drummer in a rock band that just flew for the first time a few years ago.

    Maybe I could recount that story with a few brownies and some milk (not hinting at anything…just that I write airplane stories better with a little sweet treat). Isn’t that ironic? We were just talking about you sending brownies here. Small world.


  294. 298 chrisklob January 6, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    I hope not Gil. I’m really worried. Maybe CL lost it. Or maybe she’ll decide that this one is good enough until the next one. Who’s next, anyway?


  295. 299 chrisklob January 7, 2008 at 12:00 am

    SG, you know what else goes good with brownies? That’s right, Knob Creek! And of course I am happy to share with all of the people in my distribution network!


  296. 300 chrisklob January 7, 2008 at 12:01 am

    SG, did the fly post a story “over there” tonight?


  297. 301 savannahguy January 7, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Klobber, yep…those reefer (refrigerated) truck drivers just keep on truckin’ day and night. Hardly talk to each other. Just listen to music the whole time they’re on the road. Occasionally you’ll hear one of then say, “ear” to the other.

    I have no idea what that means, but they’re always happy.


  298. 302 chrisklob January 7, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Keep on truckin’ baby, keep on truckin’.


  299. 303 savannahguy January 7, 2008 at 12:09 am

    Fly wanted to post today, but was too busy gathering evidence on the Clemens-McNamee story. Behind the scenes stuff that you won’t read in the papers or see on 60 minutes. That, and the publisher in Savannah got way too busy with chores and such.

    The last Fly report was “over there”. Global warming was the subject. All the more reason for reefer trucks. Gotta stay cool these days.


  300. 304 savannahguy January 7, 2008 at 12:14 am

    The clock has struck 12 and I’m about to turn into a pumpkin…so I’ll retire now. Have a big, good day tomorrow. I’ll be looking for a package from Tampa Bay.

    Goodnight ladies and gents.


  301. 305 Bob, journalist January 7, 2008 at 12:49 am

    Chris, I’ve heard that expression for nigh on to 70 year, but I remain puzzled … for ’tis the sinner, not the sin, what’s guilty … but, there’s fire behind that smokescreen and methinks you’re on spot.

    Interestingly, it seems that Roger feels Brian McNamee lied because he was attempting to avoid prosecution for “obtaining/distributing/administering” banned substances … and he told the truth about Andy because that was a different situation.

    Assuming McNamee is guilty, … and it now appears illogical to otherwise assume … then banned substances were indeed “obtained/distributed/administered” to some individual or group of individuals … the questions relate to whom … for if not to and/or for Roger, then for whom?

    It also seems illogical that McNamee, whose success and visibility appears closely tied to his association with Clemens, would not have at least approached Roger with the notion of using PEDs, if he were the active conduit … unless, of course, it was as he said and it was Roger who had the notion and Brian what done the deed.

    Roger may be a Texan but methinks he answers questions with questions as deftly as a polished native Brit. His response to the appropriate penalty for those who so cheated seems equivalent to saying that none needs to be imposed … since there is adequate self inflected punishment associated with the taking of the banned substances. Certainly it would be as logical as it is self-serving for those who have so cheated to adopt, promote or support that position.

    I’m not familiar with those substances but would think that those benefiting from their distribution and use would select/develop substances that carried acceptable risk levels when properly administered … so as to all but eliminate the credibility of such an argument.

    Roger was advised by counsel not to take part in the Mitchell investigation and/or provide information … why did he consult counsel … and/or why was he so counseled?

    Saving face was and is recognized as being a point of honor with the Japanese and those of the East … it’s even more important to those of the West … methinks most do whatever it takes to so do, including the dishonorable … emphatic denial when we are guilty.

    Methinks he’s guilty as sin!


  302. 306 Bob, journalist January 7, 2008 at 7:43 am

    Sir Guy, it has been well chronicled that I turned to journalism as a in a effort to combat ineffective beet writing prevalent around the time Abner and I developed The Game and ’tis true that I had a profound impact on the writing of young Sam Clemens, …. or him on mine, one or thuther.

    However, I never cottoned much to Grant, not because of his cussin’, boozin’ or smelly, cheap cigars … but, his buddy burned our family plantation though our slaves were treated as free men and paid for their labor.

    Granted that I always liked Grant Park, have wonderful memories of Grant Field, and wouldn’t mind receiving a grant myself … but them were/are different Grants!


  303. 307 berigan2electricboogaloo January 7, 2008 at 8:26 am

    I’ll grant you that Bob!


  304. 308 berigan2electricboogaloo January 7, 2008 at 8:35 am

    Have any of you all been getting the latest in Spam technology??? Pop unders??? Unlike pop up ads, you don’t see them til you start closing browser windows….and apparently, pop up blockers are powerless to stop them!!! 😡 (And the mad emoticon looks more like an Asian gritting their teeth than anything else-no offense to any Asian members here do that very thing right now! )


  305. 309 journalist jimmy smith January 7, 2008 at 8:40 am

    journalist was hurt to read the accusations leveled at this journalist and chop seal concerning alleged untrustworthy baked goods delivery. jimmy smith agonized over the remedy and has come up with this: journalist bob is a man of unquestioned integrity and would be a worthy recipient of the baked goods for delivery to others. please forward those baked goods (please include red velvet cake and brownies) to journalist bob in care of jimmy smith, journalist, and chop seal, beet writer. thank you.


  306. 310 chrisklob January 7, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Roger Clemens has filed a law suit against his former trainer, Brian McNamee.

    Go on Rocket, dig that whole a little deeper…….



  307. 311 CL January 7, 2008 at 8:47 am



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